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The Lorethief core class - An acquirer of obscure knowledge (revised again)

Ismaul

Explorer
Hi all! Thanks for looking.
I hope you appreciate this core class.

Here we go for a new revision. The main change is the new ability, Anticipate, that replaced the old Find weakness. The previous version of the class is posted in an abridged version in the 20th post, for reference.

I'd really appreciate feedback and issues about balance.

[size=+1]The Lorethief[/size]
Thinkel couldn't stand in place. He was too excited. He had used all his mischievousness to arrive at this point. He had lied, manipulated, listened at doors and sneaked in places he shouldn't have been. But today was the day.

He was going to know.

The previous secret he had uncovered hadn't lived up to his expectations. But this one promised to satisfy his curiosity, at least for today. This secret was not going to be another episode about a noble and his maid: the chamberlain was involved, as were important nobles and the lord's personal wizard.

When he first saw the nobles acting secretive, he knew they were up to something. He loved the sound of whispering people, it meant there was something he shouldn't be knowing, something much more interesting than what everyone said openly. He overheard them thinking about experiments. He had to know more about it. He wouldn't be sleeping if he didn't.

He set himself to gather more information. He knew how to get the words out of others' mouths before they even realized what they had said. He learned that those so-called experiments implicated magic in a way. This was getting more and more intriguing, and explained the involvement of the wizard. Slowly, Thinkel retrieved the pieces of the puzzle. He was small, being a gnome, and others paid much less attention to him. He used that as an advantage to slip in the maze of passageways of the castle, hiding in the dark corners, listening to nobles' conversation that might have hinted at the closely guarded secret. He found out that an apprentice had uncovered an ancient arcane tome, and that the wizard and his assistants were decrypting the writings to understand and rediscover the lost magic. The wizard's research was going at a fast pace. At the time Thinkel knew what this was all about, the experiments were coming to an end.

Thinkel chose a propitious moment, while the wizard and his assistants were away, and transported himself inside the laboratory. He quickly scanned the place, and promptly found what he was looking for: a mundane statuette on the wizard's worktable that, if it had eyes, could see almost all the area around. He took some time to study it, and proceeded to hide it afterwards. Then, he deftly climbed on the worktable, and slowly took the form of the figurine, mimicking its every feature.

He loved that feeling of clandestinity, being in the middle of the sought place, laid bare to anyone who would enter the room, yet invisible. Really, was there a better disguise than mundane objects used, seen everyday by sentient creatures until they were so much accustomed to them they didn't even pay attention anymore? Thinkel remembered that time he transformed into a fine ring and made himself offered to a lady from which he needed information. That was a nice trick, he thought.

His thoughts were interrupted when he heard the familiar footsteps of the wizard. Everything was set in place now, and he was getting that tickly feeling again. A mystery waited to be unveiled.


Description
Lorethieves devote their life to gather hidden knowledge, and their usually chaotic and playful nature gives them a high predisposition for trickery. They are always curious, on the lookout for knowledge, thirsting for mysterious, hidden knowledge and secrets, be it people's secrets, conspiracies, ancient lore, arcana or religious. Lorethieves loves the thrill of clandestinity, of hearing things they souldn't hear, knowing things unknown by most. But, an uncovered secret is no longer one, and becomes no more fun. That's the reason why they embark on adventures: they want more secrets.

Why do lorethieves want this hidden knowledge? The quest of knowledge is the reason itself. Sometimes a lorethief might side with a certain group, religous, political, or whatever, but the cause is rarely the most important, it's the secrets. Lorethieves use many ways to achieve their means, but it usually involes being someplace they souldn’t be. They might work their way in the intrigue of the courts, lying, manipulating, spying for the information, and then using it to blackmail, create confusion, scandals, or to deepen secrets for their personal amusement. Different lorethieves might research for old or forgotten magic or alchemy. Others might work in conjunction with thieves' groups or as spies. They use skill and innate magic, as sorcerers, to get in and out of places and to remain unseen. Their very nature grants them their aptitude for magic, and with time this relation develops into a mysterious energy that wards them from harm.

[size=+1]Game Rule Information[/size]
Lorethieves have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Charisma determines which spells a lorethief can cast and how hard those spells are to resist, and benefit many of his skills. Intelligence is important for his lorethieving abilities and grants more uses per day, and is essential for most skills. Dexterity helps overcome the lack of armor and factors in the lorethief’s stealth.
Hit Die: d6.
Class Skills: The Lorethief’s Class skills are Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge (any), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot and Use Magic Device.
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int.
Alignment: Any non lawful.
Starting Age: As a rogue.
Starting Gold: 4d4 x 10gp.

[size=+1]Class Features[/size]
All of the following are class features of the lorethief.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Lorethieves are proficient with the club, dagger, dart, hand crossbow, light crossbow, quarterstaff, sap and sling, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a lorethief’s arcane gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Code:
[b]Level BAB     Fort Ref Will   AC    Special[/b]
1     +0       +0  +2   +2    +0    Fast retreat, loretheft, obscure lore, 
				    secrets sense, trapfinding				   
2     +1       +0  +3   +3    +0    Mock danger
3     +1       +1  +3   +3    +0    Anticipate +1, low-light vision, mindthieving
4     +2       +1  +4   +4    +0    Hide motives
5     +2       +1  +4   +4    +1    Trackless step
6     +3       +2  +5   +5    +1    Entropic warding 
7     +3       +2  +5   +5    +1    Anticipate +2, darkvision
8     +4       +2  +6   +6    +1    Deceit
9     +4       +3  +6   +6    +1    Urban camouflage
10    +5       +3  +7   +7    +2    Evasion, pilfer memory
11    +5       +3  +7   +7    +2    Anticipate +3
12    +6/+1    +4  +8   +8    +2    Chaos mind
13    +6/+1    +4  +8   +8    +2    A thousand faces
14    +7/+2    +4  +9   +9    +2    Negate magic
15    +7/+2    +5  +9   +9    +3    Anticipate +4
16    +8/+3    +5  +10  +10   +3    Hide in plain sight
17    +8/+3    +5  +10  +10   +3    Urban shapes
18    +9/+4    +6  +11  +11   +3    Greater entropic warding
19    +9/+4    +6  +11  +11   +3    Anticipate +5
20    +10/+5   +6  +12  +12   +4    Omniscient

AC Bonus: Lorethieves may not be that great at hurting anybody, but others have a hard time hurting them, due to their deceiving nature. When unarmored and unencumbered, a lorethief adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his AC. In addition, a lorethief gains a +1 bonus at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five lorethief levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the lorethief is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

Fast Retreat: In face of a dangerous situation, in which a lorethief is highly likely to find himself, he has little means of confronting the adversity, thus he runs. He gains the Run feat, and a 5 feet bonus to speed while wearing light or no armor and carrying no more than a light load.

Loretheft: A number of times per day equal to one-half the lorethief’s level + his Int modifier, a lorethief can use his abilities to steal knowledge. Starting a lorethieving effect is a standard action, and requires only thought to activate. Some lorethieving abilities require concentration, which means the lorethief must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. If he fails at an attempt to use a lorethieving ability, it still counts against his daily limit. Anytime a lorethief wishes, he can spend a daily use of his lorethieving abilities to grant himself or an ally a +2 insight bonus to a skill check or lore check that involves hidden, obscure or unknown information. It works for most Gather Information and Knowledge checks, and sometimes for Sense Motive, Charisma or Intelligence-based skill checks.

Mindthieving (Su): A lorethief of 3rd level can use his lorethieving abilities to read other’s thoughts. He knows the surface thoughts of the mind of subjects within 60 feet that fail a Will save (DC 10 + half the lorethief’s level + Int bonus). The ability’s duration is up to one minute per level, and the lorethief must concentrate to maintain the effect. At 5th level, maintaining concentration while reading surface thoughts becomes a free action.

A lorethief can read a number of minds equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, he knows the surface thoughts of an additional mind (+1 at 5th level, +2 at 10th, +3 at 15th and +4 at 20th).

Creatures of animal intelligence have simple, instinctual thoughts that the lorethief can pick up. If he reads the thoughts of a creature with an Intelligence of 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than his own Intelligence score), he is stunned for 1 round and the effect ends. This ability does not let him pinpoint the location of an affected mind if he doesn’t have line of sight to the subject.

Each round, a lorethief can turn his attention to other subjects, or try again to read the minds of subjects that resisted beforehand. The ability can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

Pilfer Memory (Su): A lorethief of 10th level can reach into a subject’s memory to steal information. Once he is able to read one subject’s mind, he can concentrates on it to access all his memories and knowledge. Using this ability does not break the lorethief’s concentration on the mindreading effect, nor does it count against his daily limit on lorethieving abilities.

He can read memories and knowledge about one query per round, to the best of the subject’s knowledge. The subject is allowed a Will save for each query (mindthieving’s DC). If he succeeds, his mind does not allow access to this fragment of his memory; however, the lorethief can try to gain information about a new query or the same one in subsequent rounds.

A lorethief can probe a sleeping subject and automatically get information related to his query. If the subject then succeeds on a Will save, it wakes after providing the answer and thereafter its mind can resist being read by making Will saves as described above.

Once a lorethief accesses a fragment of the subject’s memory (by getting an “answer” to his query), he can chose to eliminate all memory of it in the subject’s mind, although by doing so he cannot negate charm, geas/quest, suggestion, or similar spells. The subject is granted a Will save to negate this effect.

A lorethief queries a subject telepathically, and the knowledge is imparted directly to his mind. He and the subject do not need to know the same language, though less intelligent creatures may yield up only appropriate visual images in answer to his queries.

Omniscient (Su): At 20th level, a lorethief can use mindthieving at will, and can suppress or resume reading minds as a free action. Pilfer memory now takes a daily use of his lorethieving ability, and lasts up to one minute per level, per use.

Obscure Lore: A lorethief picks up a lot of stray knowledge while wandering the land and peeking around in places he’s not allowed. The same as Bardic Knowledge.

Secrets Sense: Lorethieves pass their time searching for hidden things, places and knowledge, and are also on the lookout about any possible exit if they happen to be discovered. A lorethief senses develop. If he merely passes within 5 feet of concealed objects, doors or exits, he is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if he were actively looking for it.

Trapfinding: As the rogue class feature.

Mock Danger (Ex): The lorethief’s indifference to danger, even more, his seeking of risk, renders it much less potent. At 2nd level, he adds his Charisma bonus to saving throws. This ability can be used only if a lorethief is wearing light armor or no armor.

Anticipate: Starting at 3rd level, a lorethief develops a second sense together with his mindthieving abilities. He gets a very dim feeling of other’s general emotions, of latent courses of thought, of potential actions. By grasping this feeling and analysing it with his familiarity of mindthieving, he can try to predict an opponent’s actions. He gains an insight bonus against his opponent by making a check against a DC of 10 + the opponent’s HD. He adds his lorethief level to the check. Making this check is a free action, which a lorethief can try once per round. If the check is successful, he gains the listed insight bonus against that particular opponent for a round. If he fails the check, he loses his momentum, and may not try to gain insight during the following round.

He gains a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls against this particular opponent for this round. This bonus increases by 1 evey four levels thereafter (+2 at 5th, +3 at 9th, +4 at 13th, and +5 at 17th). He also gains half this bonus to spell DCs (+1 at at 5th, +2 at 13th).

He can only gain an insight bonus if he is within 30 feet of his opponent. Opponents that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effets cannot be anticipated, therefore the lorethief cannot gain the insight bonus against them.

Low-light Vision (Ex): Lorethieves have the habit of spying in lightly lit areas. With time, their magic comes to complement their sight. At 3rd level, a lorethief develops low-light vision. If the lorethief already has low-light vision from another source, his low-light vision improves, allowing him to see three times as far as a human in conditions of shadowy illumination. If the lorethief has low-light vision as one of his known spells, he may replace it by another one of the same level.

Hide Motives (Su): A lorethief accustomed to hear and say lies develops the capacity to hide is intentions to others. Starting at 4th level, he becomes shielded by a continuous undetectable alignment effect (as the spell), of a caster level equal to his lorethief’s level, and gains a +4 bonus on his saving throw against spells that penetrate the mind to discover information, such as detect thoughts. If the lorethief has undetectable alignment as one of his known spells, he may replace it by another one of the same level.

Trackless Step (Ex): Beginning at 5th level, a lorethief cannot be tracked in urban surroundings. He can chose to leave a trail if he wishes.

Entropic Warding (Su): Starting at 6th level, a lorethief’s chaotic nature and its relation with his magic grants him further protection. he becomes shielded by a continuous entropic shield effect (as the spell), of a caster level equal to his lorethief’s level. If the lorethief has entropic shield as one of his known spells, he may replace it by another one of the same level.

Darkvision (Ex): At 7th level, a lorethief develops darkvision to 60 feet. If the lorethief already has darkvision from another source, his darkvision improves, the range increasing by 30 feet. If the lorethief has darkvision as one of his known spells, he may replace it by another one of the same level.

Deceit (Su): At 8th level, the lorethief gains spell resistance 10 + lorethief’s level against spells that reveal falsehood, such as zone of truth and discern lies, even when spell resistance is not allowed (such as with discern lies).

Urban Camouflage (Ex): Beginning at 9th level, a lorethief can use the Hide skill in any sort of urban terrain (including dungeons and stone caves), even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment. He also gains a +4 bonus to Disguise in urban places.

Evasion: As the monk class feature.

Chaos Mind (Su): The lorethief’s chaotic attitude makes him hard to find by magical means and hard to affect by chaotic magic. At 12th level, he gains immunity to confusion and insanity spells and effects, and he is shielded by a continuous nondetection effect (as the spell), of a caster level equal to his lorethief’s level. If the lorethief has nondetection as one of his known spells, he may replace it by another one of the same level.

A Thousand Faces (Su): As the druid class feature.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su):As the assassin class feature.

Negate Magic (Su): A number of times per day equal to his Charisma bonus, a lorethief can activate his inner chaotic magic to supress magical effects. A lorethief can protect himself from magical harm, gaining Spell Resistance equal to 10 + his lorethief’s level + his Charisma bonus for one round. Using the ability this way is an immediate action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. It is a reactive action, and the lorethief is not required to be aware of the magic targeting him to use the ability.

He can also elect to activate his inner magic to make other’s magic fail or suppress current magical effects, as if casting greater dispel magic. Using this ability is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. He still has to ready an action with this ability if he wishes to counterspell.

Urban Shapes (Su): At 17th level, the lorethief’s a thousand faces ability improves (all that applies to a thousand faces also applies to urban shapes, unless stated otherwise). The lorethief can now take the form of an object, mundane or precious looking. He is effectively disguised as an average object of the selected type. If he wishes, he may try to imitate the look of an existing object or pretend having magical proprieties (just like a disguise) and gets a +10 bonus on his Disguise check. He can’t assume an object form smaller than Fine or larger than his normal size category.

The lorethief gains the hardness of the object, keeps his hit points and saving throws, and is affected by attacks the way an object is. When someone tries to break him with sudden force rather than by dealing damage and succeeds with the Strength DC, the lorethief is allowed a Will save. If he succeeds, he takes damage equivalent to the break DC of the object, if he fails, he takes twice the damage. If the damage dealt exceeds 50 or half his base hit points, or if he is reduced to negative hit points, he automatically reverts back to his original form.

The lorethief retains his normal senses (including any racial ones, such as darkvision or scent) and can perceive his surroundings, meaning he can see, hear, smell and feel even if the new form does not have the required physical attribute. He can talk in this new form, even if this form is not capable of speech. In this case, he counts as being under a continuous ventriloquism effect. He has no means of locomotion.

Greater Entropic Warding (Su): Starting at 18th level, the lorethief’s 20% miss chance granted by entropic warding now applies to all attacks, melee or ranged.


[size=+1]Spells[/size]
A lorethief casts arcane spells, which are drawn primarily from the lorethief spell list (see below). He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, similarly to a bard or a sorcerer.

Unlike bards and sorcerers, lorethieves can learn additional spells to those on the Spells Known table. Doing so is much more involving for them than learning a spell for a wizard, and uses the same rules as researching original spells (see page 198 of the DMG). The Spellcraft DC to learn a spell this way is 15 + the spell’s level, and unlike researching an original spell, it can be retried one week later if the check fails. The costs for the research are halved if the lorethief has access to a copy of the spell. A lorethief can learn any arcane spell by research, be it on the sorcerer/wizard spell list or on theirs.

Spells per Day
Code:
Level	0   1st  2nd  3rd  4th  5th  6th  7th
1st	3    0    —    —    —    —    —    —
2nd	4    1    —    —    —    —    —    —
3rd	4    2    —    —    —    —    —    —
4th	5    3    1    —    —    —    —    —
5th	5    3    2    —    —    —    —    —
6th	5    4    3    0    —    —    —    —
7th	6    4    3    1    —    —    —    —
8th	6    4    4    2    —    —    —    —
9th	6    5    4    3    1    —    —    —
10th	6    5    4    3    2    —    —    —
11th	6    5    5    4    3    0    —    —
12th	6    5    5    4    3    1    —    —
13th	6    5    5    4    4    2    —    —
14th	6    5    5    5    4    3    1    —
15th	6    5    5    5    4    3    2    —
16th	6    5    5    5    5    4    3    0
17th	6    5    5    5    5    4    3    1
18th	6    5    5    5    5    4    4    2
19th	6    5    5    5    5    5    4    3
20th	6    5    5    5    5    5    4    3
Spells Known:
Code:
Level	0   1st  2nd  3rd  4th  5th  6th  7th
1st	4    2*   —    —    —    —    —    —
2nd	4    3    —    —    —    —    —    —
3rd	5    3    —    —    —    —    —    —
4th	5    4    3    —    —    —    —    —
5th	6    4    3    —    —    —    —    —
6th	6    4    4    2*   —    —    —    —
7th	7    5    4    3    —    —    —    —
8th	7    5    4    3    —    —    —    —
9th	8    5    5    4    3    —    —    —
10th	8    5    5    4    3    —    —    —
11th	9    5    5    4    4    2*   —    —
12th	9    5    5    5    4    3    —    —
13th	9    5    5    5    4    3    —    —
14th	9    5    5    5    5    4    3    —
15th	9    5    5    5    5    4    3    —
16th	9    5    5    5    5    4    4    2*
17th	9    5    5    5    5    5    4    3
18th	9    5    5    5    5    5    4    3
19th	9    5    5    5    5    5    5    4
20th	9    5    5    5    5    5    5    4

*[size=-2]Provided the lorethief has a high enough Charisma score to have a bonus spell of this level.[/size]
[size=-2]
  • 0 Level: dancing lights, daze, detect magic, distract [new], flare, ghost sound, know direction, light, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, prestidigitation, read magic, touch of fatigue
  • 1st Level: alarm, animate rope, camouflage [Div], charm person, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, discern bloodline [RoD], disguise self, distort speech [Adv], distract assailant [Adv], entropic shield, erase, expeditious retreat, swift expeditious retreat [Adv], feather fall, friendly face [RoD], grease, hypnotism, identify, instant locksmith [Adv], instant search [Adv], lesser confusion, locate city [RoS], low-light vision [Arc], magic mouth, nystul’s magic aura, obscuring mist, obscure object, pass without trace, phantom threat [War], ray of enfeeblement, reduce person, sanctuary, scholar’s touch [RoD], silent image, sleep, undetectable alignment, ventriloquism
  • 2nd Level: alter self, arcane lock, augury, blindness/deafness, blur, cat’s grace, curse of ill fortune [Div], darkness, darkvision, daze monster, detect thoughts, eagle’s splendor, enthrall, fly, swift fly [Adv], fog cloud, fox’s cunning, ghoul touch, glitterdust, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, swift invisibility [Adv], knock, leomund’s trap, locate object, mindless rage [Adv], minor image, mirror image, misdirection, nondetection, owl’s wisdom, phantasmal assailant [Arc], proud arrogance [RoD], pyrotechnics, see invisibility, silence, spider climb, summon swarm, tasha’s hideous laughter, tongues, touch of idiocy, touch of madness [Div], wall of gloom [Arc], web, whispering wind
  • 3rd Level: animal from [new], arcane sight, bestow curse, blink, charm monster, clairaudience/clairvoyance, confusion, daylight, deep slumber, dimension door, dispel magic, displacement, gaseous form, glibness, hold person, illusory script, invisibility sphere, major image, protection from energy, ray of exhaustion, remove curse, sculpt sound, secret page, sepia snake sigil, shadow binding [Arc], shrink item, slow, stinking cloud, suggestion, winding alley [RoD]
  • 4th Level: arcane eye, break enchantment, chain of eyes [Div], mass charm person [RoD], contagion, detect scrying, discern lies, divination, false vision, fire trap, freedom of movement, lesser geas, lesser globe of invulnerability, hallucinatory terrain, illusory wall, greater invisibility, listening coin [Adv], locate creature, modify memory, passwall, persistent image, rainbow pattern, rusting grasp, scrying, shadow conjuration, solid fog, teleport, unluck [Arc], wrack [Div], zone of silence
  • 5th Level: baleful polymorph, greater blink [Arc], greater dispel magic, dominate person, dream, feeblemind, find the path, hold monster, improvisation [Adv], legend lore, mind fog, mirage arcana, mislead, nightmare, probe thoughts [Div], programmed image, seeming, shadow evocation, shadow form [Adv], shadow walk, telekinesis, true seeing
  • 6th Level: analyze dweomer, animate objects, greater bestow curse [Div], discern location, eyebite, geas/quest, globe of invulnerability, illusory pit [Arc], insanity, permanent image, phantasmal disorientation [Div], phase door, project image, reverse gravity, screen, greater scrying, spell turning, mass suggestion, greater teleport, veil
  • 7th Level: mass charm monster, discern location, hindsight [Adv], maze, mind blank, moment of prescience, otto’s irresistible dance, polymorph any object, screen[/size]

Ex-Lorethieves
A lorethief who becomes lawful loses the following abilities: chaos mind, entropic warding, greater entropic warding, mock danger and negate magic, and cannot gain more levels as a lorethief. He retains all the other benefits of the class.


New Spells
Distract
[size=-2]Illusion (Figment or Glamer) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: One creature
Duration: Concentration + 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
You cause the subject to release his attention from his primary occupation, by making him hallucinate a moving dot or color, or by making his body or part of it feel weird. Subjects under the effet of distract take a –4 penalty on Listen, Spot, Search and Sense Motive checks while the distraction is in effect.[/size]


Animal Form
[size=-2]Transmutation
Level: 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Area: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
This spell functions like alter self, except that you can change yourself into an animal of 5HD or less. The new form must be no larger than your normal size, and up to two size categories smaller.[/size]


If you have any commentaries or ideas please share them ;)
 
Last edited:

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Corlon

First Post
Interesting idea, kind of like an arcane trikster put into a core class, but truly a rogue/wizard together into one class.

All the special abilities mixed with a lot of spells seems sort of unbalanced at first glance, but then again I haven't really looked in depth at the spell list or per day or whatever, but definitely looks like a cool class.

If you playtest it more, tell me how it goes.
 

Arkhandus

First Post
Obscure Motives is somewhat too potent, but I'm not sure how to weaken it properly. I'd suggest giving Slippery Mind at 9th-level, as per the Rogue ability, and give Defensive Roll at 19th-level. You didn't mention in the description if Lorepilfers are spontaneous or prepared arcane casters, by the way. I'd make them spontaneous, but require them to keep a spellbook like a wizard. Say they spend 10 minutes each morning meditating to regain their spells per day, like a sorcerer or bard, but when casting a spell they need to have their spellbook in-hand to read part of the spell. Allow them to learn new spells like a wizard by copying spells from scrolls or spellbooks.

Perhaps add a simple custom spell of 1st level, with a duration of 1 hour per level probably, called Animate Spellbook, which keeps the Lorepilfer's spellbook floating by them at all times that the spell is active, with the Lorepilfer mentally commanding it as a free action to flip to the right page for whatever spell they want to cast next. This would allow them to keep both hands free, allowing them to cast spells with somatic components even while holding a weapon or whatnot in one hand.

As for naming suggestions, I'd suggest Loresnatcher, Talesnatcher, or Lorefinder.
 


Ismaul

Explorer
Thanks all for the comments.

For the overpowered part, if you take a better look at the class, you would see he doesn't have offensive capability as any other core class. He's got very limited weapon selection, and the worst BAB. His spell list contains absolutely no hit points dealing or killing spells. Divine magic is considered less powerful than arcane magic, but still has healing spells, buff spells and damage dealing spells. He's got almost nothing of that, but has some buff spells, mainly personal. The rest are mainly movement/escape spells, knowledge spells, charm spells and "tricky" spells (illusions, curses...). As D&D involves a good amount of combat, this is a huge disadvantage.

If we look at the Druid, he has full divine casting, plus 4 skills pts, plus med BAB, plus shapechanging. His divine casting is better than the lorepilfer's, as it has higher level spells, and has buff/healing/damage dealing spells. If we look at the bard, he has similar casting if not better (more useful spells, but slower progression), same skill points, med BAB, armor and bardic music. Seeing it from this angle, the lorepilfer actually seems weak to me. He's worse than a rogue with skills, worse than everyone at combat, worse at spellcasting than other main spellcasters. He's only got some defensive abilities to compensate, and even with that, at low levels he is still pretty vulnerable.

For spelllcasting, they cast as sorcerers. I think it is written in the description part. As the idea is to make the lorepilfers' magic come from them and form a sort of "bond", which in turn protects them, having a spellbook isn't really fitting. Additionaly, giving them a spellbook makes them able to write new spells, which IMHO is too powerful because it negates the penality of limited known spells. But, a lorepilfer can take "arcane knowledge" as a special ability, which grants him a new spell known. This way the idea of possible arcane research/study is still there, but in a more limited fashion.

About Obscure Motives, the problem is that we don't play with alignement in my group, so I still wanted to make it worthwile. Maybe the +4 to saves should be reduced to +2 (but it will make it very weak for non-aligned campaigns). Or I should just make it a limited slippery mind.

Adding Slippery Mind might be too good. At level 9, that would mean someone wanting to charm the lorepilfer will need to make a will save to pass the sanctuary effect (from the Elusive ability), then the lorepilfer will have to fail his will save twice (to which he added his Cha bonus because of Mock Danger). That will make him almost immune to mind-affecting spells.

More comments?
 
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Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
I like the flavor of the name, but I agree that it's a little awkward.

This seems like a good class, and it's certainly flavorful. My first impression was "overpowered" - spells and a ton of skill points and lots of special abilities! - but it's hard to figure out how combat suckiness is going to figure into this. I think that building a class which is great at everything but combat will tend to annoy the other players.
 

drnuncheon

Explorer
For the name, I think "lorethief" flows better.

That said, I've got to agree - compare this guy to the bard. He's got better spellcasting (including some non-arcane spells), as many skill points, almost as good a class skill list, bardic knowledge, and a host of special abilities.

Not only that, but there's huge amounts of synergy between their special abilities, their spellcasting stat, and many of their skills - everything important to this class is keyed off of Charisma. Note that other classes with lots of special abilities spread out the required stats - paladins need the physical stats, Wisdom, and Charisma, for instance. I'd key the spells off of their Intelligence and make them prepared, as that seems like the kind of magic that can be learned and stolen rather than being inborn (sorcerer) or granted by a higher power (divine).

Despite the 'few direct damage' spells, they've got plenty of spells that would give them something to do in a fight, from grease and ghoul touch to stinking cloud and baleful polymorph.

I'd consider toning down the number of protective special abilities, too. More on this later.

J
 



Corlon

First Post
hmm, just a quick idea I'm having with the spells:

because he's a class all about gaining hidden knowledge and such, why not make him prepare spells and be able to gain more via writing to something like the wizard. This would make him really be pilfering arcane knowledge for his direct benefit. You'd just have to put in some disclaimers (such as no direct damage spells and whatever other restrictions you see fit).
 

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