D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Micah Sweet]

I will disagree here, because DnD doesn't CARE if something is supernatural. DnD cares if something is magical, specifically if something is a spell, and only because of dispel magic, counterspell, and Anti-magic fields.

For example, DnD does not care that Ghosts are supernatural. It cares that they are ethereal, and that they are undead, but only in regards to weapon damage and specific triggers.

I cannot think of any time that the game of DnD, in its own terms, makes the distinction between supernatural and mundane. Only magical and non-magical, and only in the context of counter-triggers.

In 3e they explicitly made that distinction.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Adding the the 'supernatural' list:

taunting, being intimidating, being inspirational, moving, and swinging in an arc.

What even IS mundane?

 

[Chaosmancer]

My issue is with people insisting that obviously supernatural effects aren't supernatural, but just stuff humans can do (but admittedly we've been at this a long time and not every post is perfect or even on-point). In GoT all the examples you gave are crazy supernatural by everyone's standards, in-universe or out, because that story operates on the very common fantasy and science fiction assumption that humans can't do those things without it being very unusual or special in some way, that in fact the world acts like our world unless shown otherwise. Several posters here seem to actively hate that assumption and want it to die.

Let's take your "slash an enemy from 30 ft away" ability.

Zoro from One Piece does this with his various Phoenix Cannon techniques, where he takes a stance, swings, and sends compressed blasts of air to cut the enemy. You are going to tell me "that makes no sense, you can't do that, no one is strong enough or fast enough to do that."

I have also seen a similar technique wear a users Aura/Ki/Life Energy/Soul is compressed and sent through the blade, forming an energy slash. This is also impossible and makes no sense. You cannot compress or manipulate the energy your body produces in anyway, let alone send it out of your own body.

I have also seen a technique where the user swung, and their shadow is what cut the person, becoming solid as they manipulated their shadow. This is impossible and makes no sense. Shadows are simply the absence of light caused by an object blocking that light. They cannot be made solid and hurt someone. Neither could it be possible for a shadow to stab a shadow and use the principle of sympathy to cause a wound on the real person, your shadow being harmed does not harm you.

I have also seen a technique were carving runes and sigils on the blade allows it to shoot blasts of energy. This is impossible and makes no sense. Writing something on a blade cannot cause it to gather energy, especially something that nebulous, let alone release it in a controlled slash, instead of releasing it on every movement of the blade, which would cause constant explosions of energy.

A technique where you psychically extend the concept of a blade or cutting into the mind of the opponent, causing them to bleed? Impossible, blades don't have psyches, and making someone think you cut them when you clearly didn't touch them could not possibly make them bleed.

ALL OF THEM are impossible and make no sense. And yet, every single one of those is a real technique I've seen used in fantasy media, with the real explanation that media gave. None of it makes sense, if you really break it down, because humans can't do these things.... until they can.

The only one you seem to have a problem with is the one where it is pure training, claiming it is impossible because people aren't that strong and they can't train to be that strong. However... the fantasy world doesn't care about that. Zoro's training and strength were on display LONG before he was shown able to send blasts of air. All of the below pictures come from before that moment.

How do they explain this? Simple. Zoro is really strong. End of explanation. Other people are as strong or stronger than he is in the same world. Why would they need a different explanation? By the time we see him lifting a building we've seen a man made of rubber, a man made of smoke, a man made of sand, giants, a woman who can turn into a mole, a clown that can't be cut and can move his disconnected body parts, a reindeer-man who can shapeshift, a whale whose head it taller than the Eiffel Tower.

No reader ever went "well, I can accept all that, but a man who is really strong? That just isn't possible!" It clearly IS possible, does this mean literally anything is possible? No, the world still has rules it follows. It just doesn't follow the rule that humans are not capable of extreme feats of strength.

So, if gave fighter something like
Impossible Blow: Starting at level 11, as a bonus action you can extend your reach by +30 ft and increase the range of all ranged attacks by +60 ft.

Well... it isn't called out as "supernatural" and so the "how" of the ability is left to the player. You think it has to be magic, cool, your version can be magic. I'll call it a blast of fighting spirit that isn't magical. That works too. An edgy player who is playing a Shadar-Kai and delving into shadow magic might make it them manipulating shadows. That works to. The explanation doesn't matter, because it can be tailored to the character.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Fair enough and I agree because --- it isn't, is it?

We are constantly told that, unless we explicitly call out "this is supernatural" we are limited to what a human can do. Because the fighter and rogue do not call out an outside power source making them more than human, they must be limited to human limits.

Even if they are an half-blood vampire, a killer robot, or a slime.

 

[Chaosmancer]

In 3e they explicitly made that distinction.

Oh, well, since we are all still discussing 3rd edition and it is the year 2000 then that is a completely reasonable point to be made. Good thing we aren't discussing 5th edition and it is the year 2024, that would make this a completely useless point.

 

[Vaalingrade]

We are constantly told that, unless we explicitly call out "this is supernatural" we are limited to what a human can do.

Unless it has to do with influencing others. Or being stronger or more agile than a 50+ year old man.

Or imagining things that are fantastic without being magical.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Oh, well, since we are all still discussing 3rd edition and it is the year 2000 then that is a completely reasonable point to be made. Good thing we aren't discussing 5th edition and it is the year 2024, that would make this a completely useless point.

If it's 2000, it means smartphones are magical for another few years!

 

[Micah Sweet]

Let's take your "slash an enemy from 30 ft away" ability.

Zoro from One Piece does this with his various Phoenix Cannon techniques, where he takes a stance, swings, and sends compressed blasts of air to cut the enemy. You are going to tell me "that makes no sense, you can't do that, no one is strong enough or fast enough to do that."

I have also seen a similar technique wear a users Aura/Ki/Life Energy/Soul is compressed and sent through the blade, forming an energy slash. This is also impossible and makes no sense. You cannot compress or manipulate the energy your body produces in anyway, let alone send it out of your own body.

I have also seen a technique where the user swung, and their shadow is what cut the person, becoming solid as they manipulated their shadow. This is impossible and makes no sense. Shadows are simply the absence of light caused by an object blocking that light. They cannot be made solid and hurt someone. Neither could it be possible for a shadow to stab a shadow and use the principle of sympathy to cause a wound on the real person, your shadow being harmed does not harm you.

I have also seen a technique were carving runes and sigils on the blade allows it to shoot blasts of energy. This is impossible and makes no sense. Writing something on a blade cannot cause it to gather energy, especially something that nebulous, let alone release it in a controlled slash, instead of releasing it on every movement of the blade, which would cause constant explosions of energy.

A technique where you psychically extend the concept of a blade or cutting into the mind of the opponent, causing them to bleed? Impossible, blades don't have psyches, and making someone think you cut them when you clearly didn't touch them could not possibly make them bleed.

ALL OF THEM are impossible and make no sense. And yet, every single one of those is a real technique I've seen used in fantasy media, with the real explanation that media gave. None of it makes sense, if you really break it down, because humans can't do these things.... until they can.

The only one you seem to have a problem with is the one where it is pure training, claiming it is impossible because people aren't that strong and they can't train to be that strong. However... the fantasy world doesn't care about that. Zoro's training and strength were on display LONG before he was shown able to send blasts of air. All of the below pictures come from before that moment.

View attachment 362279

View attachment 362280

How do they explain this? Simple. Zoro is really strong. End of explanation. Other people are as strong or stronger than he is in the same world. Why would they need a different explanation? By the time we see him lifting a building we've seen a man made of rubber, a man made of smoke, a man made of sand, giants, a woman who can turn into a mole, a clown that can't be cut and can move his disconnected body parts, a reindeer-man who can shapeshift, a whale whose head it taller than the Eiffel Tower.

No reader ever went "well, I can accept all that, but a man who is really strong? That just isn't possible!" It clearly IS possible, does this mean literally anything is possible? No, the world still has rules it follows. It just doesn't follow the rule that humans are not capable of extreme feats of strength.

So, if gave fighter something like
Impossible Blow: Starting at level 11, as a bonus action you can extend your reach by +30 ft and increase the range of all ranged attacks by +60 ft.

Well... it isn't called out as "supernatural" and so the "how" of the ability is left to the player. You think it has to be magic, cool, your version can be magic. I'll call it a blast of fighting spirit that isn't magical. That works too. An edgy player who is playing a Shadar-Kai and delving into shadow magic might make it them manipulating shadows. That works to. The explanation doesn't matter, because it can be tailored to the character.

I'm going to try to be done arguing with you. You don't care about this (albeit a rather aggressive form of not-caring where people who do care are seemingly wrong) and I do. No one is budging here.

Happy gaming.

 

[Micah Sweet]

We are constantly told that, unless we explicitly call out "this is supernatural" we are limited to what a human can do. Because the fighter and rogue do not call out an outside power source making them more than human, they must be limited to human limits.

Or you call it out. Or you split the difference, and call it out after a certain level. I mentioned Tier 3 several times.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Oh, well, since we are all still discussing 3rd edition and it is the year 2000 then that is a completely reasonable point to be made. Good thing we aren't discussing 5th edition and it is the year 2024, that would make this a completely useless point.

You said "at no time".