D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Gammadoodler]

I never really liked that rule. Make stuff available through treasure, trade and purchase, but the new spells of the players choice per level thing is too lenient for me. I'd rather it were random, or nonexistent.

Yeah. I'm not sure what the right balance is for how or what spells player's should get.

I think narratively, it makes sense that they'd be training to execute some number of spells they want to learn, so I don't think I'd want to take that away entirely.

Maybe it could be tied to the Arcane skill in some way? I think PF2e does it something like this where you have to make a roll to copy something into the spellbook.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I never really liked that rule. Make stuff available through treasure, trade and purchase, but the new spells of the players choice per level thing is too lenient for me. I'd rather it were random, or nonexistent.

Nope, hard disagree.

Taking agency out of the player's hands is a bad design choice. If you are playing a game where the main focus is dealing with an undead army, and your wizard keeps randomly getting enchantment spells that are useless against undead, that is a feel bad situation all around. Or if you want to play an evoker who blasts their enemies, and then randomly gets everything except damage spells.

Treasure, Trade and Purchase sound good, but require an amount of effort of the part of the DM and the player, which I don't see the point of.

In fact, randomized or completely lacking new spells for wizards alone (because you can't do this for clerics and druids) has no upsides I can think of, besides "some people wil find it an interesting challenge" and to those people... you have random number generators right there beside you. You want random spells, roll them yourself. Don't force everyone else to do it.

 

[nevin]

I never really liked that rule. Make stuff available through treasure, trade and purchase, but the new spells of the players choice per level thing is too lenient for me. I'd rather it were random, or nonexistent.

too lenient? a mage with only two spells per level is miserable to play.

 

[Gammadoodler]

too lenient? a mage with only two spells per level is miserable to play.

Can't they only prepare like half of those spells anyway?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah. I'm not sure what the right balance is for how or what spells player's should get.

I think narratively, it makes sense that they'd be training to execute some number of spells they want to learn, so I don't think I'd want to take that away entirely.

Maybe it could be tied to the Arcane skill in some way? I think PF2e does it something like this where you have to make a roll to copy something into the spellbook.

Maybe it's random, but they roll with advantage?

 

[nevin]

it means you are a one trick pony with one set of spells and no flexibility. Played that way a Sorcerer will have more flexibility and utility if you are going to do that just remove the mage as an option and only allow sorcerer's. A mage is all about Utility. low spell choice makes you a poor mage. You can't be a good mage with only two spells per level.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nope, hard disagree.

Taking agency out of the player's hands is a bad design choice. If you are playing a game where the main focus is dealing with an undead army, and your wizard keeps randomly getting enchantment spells that are useless against undead, that is a feel bad situation all around. Or if you want to play an evoker who blasts their enemies, and then randomly gets everything except damage spells.

Treasure, Trade and Purchase sound good, but require an amount of effort of the part of the DM and the player, which I don't see the point of.

In fact, randomized or completely lacking new spells for wizards alone (because you can't do this for clerics and druids) has no upsides I can think of, besides "some people wil find it an interesting challenge" and to those people... you have random number generators right there beside you. You want random spells, roll them yourself. Don't force everyone else to do it.

You don't see the point of effort? What does that even mean?

And as I just said above I would be cool with a weighted random roll, or maybe one choice and one random, so we get my preferred balance of agency and verisimilitude.

 

[Micah Sweet]

too lenient? a mage with only two spells per level is miserable to play.

That's what treasure, trade and purchase options are for. Worldbuilding is important, and the DM has to do the work to make a consistent, logical, and (hopefully) fun setting for the players to explore through their PCs. Honestly, that should be front and center in the core books IMO.

 

[nevin]

captain kobold was the one that posted he thought mages should only get two a level then gamma doodler chimed in they can only cast that many anyway....

My argument was basically in agreement DM should be handing out spells as treasure.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think at least one of the Wizard's two free spells should be tied to their subclass.