D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Chaosmancer]

Yes. I never said that the climbing rules were exclusive to fighters.



The fighter's distance isn't impressive? Or the Wizard being able to jump up and casually dunk a basketball at strength 10, level 1?

Because, I would like to note, if the WIZARD at strength 10 is already a premier NBA player.... maybe the level 1 fighter with a strength of 16 might be.... more?

Responding to my own post.

If we are going to be acknowledging that strength 10, level 1 Wizard nerds are already Professional NBA level Athletes... don't we sort of have a problem then with the idea that Martials should only be as good physically as real-world professional athletes? If being a nerdy scrawny wizard still leaves you in peak physical health and ability... then to demonstrate fighters being muscle-bound jocks and rogues impressive gymnasts... don't they need to go even further beyond?

 

[Minigiant]

Sure jumping and shooting is hard. But jumping and shooting 3 arrows simultaneous at three different opponents on the regular is impossible. I don't think that is something anyone has ever done. It looks mundane, but it isn't IMO.

And that is one example. There a lot more that comic book martial heroes do that is, IMO, technically supernatural (beyond the limits of what is physically possible).

To be clear, I am not saying characters shouldn't be able to do those things. I think at some point we need to honest and say: "OK, that is martial & supernatural."

Heck one person in this thread said level 15 characters should be equal Heracles. Heracles is most definitely supernatural. He may only be doing mundane martial things (lifting, wrestling, etc.), but he does them to a supernatural extent.

And that's the point of disagreement.

"jumping and shooting 3 arrows simultaneous at three different opponents" isn't impossible to me. Just really really really hard. To the point that no one but the top warriors can attempt it.

So it's just martial and mundane, just high level.

 

[FrogReaver]

But we don't want "anything". No one has ever asked that the Fighter be able to speak with the dead or see the future. We aren't asking for the fighter to be able to mind control someone into turning on their allies. I think this worry about "fighters will be able to do anything without limit" is massively overblown.

You apparently have not taken part in the same threads I have, or are blocked from seeing the same comments on them that I can.

 

[dave2008]

And that's the point of disagreement.

"jumping and shooting 3 arrows simultaneous at three different opponents" isn't impossible to me. Just really really really hard. To the point that no one but the top warriors can attempt it.

So it's just martial and mundane, just high level.

We will just have to agree to disagree, on that example. However, that is just one example. I believe you are smart enough to get my overall point.

 

[DEFCON 1]

WotC doesn't define it because they leave it to each person to define it for themselves.

People say they want WotC to define things definitively and write them down in the book so that it's the same for everyone... but that only goes as far as WotC writing down what they want the answer to be. As soon as WotC defines something that the person doesn't agree with, then it's all hogwash and gets ignored.

So there's no reason for WotC to define something if the definition will be thrown out by a good amount of the playerbase. Thus they let players define it for themselves, that way they get it exactly the way they want it. Once again... Rulings, Not Rules. Maybe someday people will finally accept that that's a pretty good way to not piss people off.

 

[dave2008]

Lars Andersen shooting 3 arrows while moving and other tricks

Menelaus shot -three arrows from horse back

I stand mostly corrected - Lars is crazy. The guy on horeseback however didn't do anything like what I suggested and even lars didn't do it while jumping horizontally like in my example. So until Lars can - I'm still going with supernatural

 

[Vaalingrade]

Jumping while shooting is not supernatural.

It's just very very hard. A high DC.

As high at 10 or maybe 12!

 

[Minigiant]

We will just have to agree to disagree, on that example. However, that is just one example. I believe you are smart enough to get my overall point.

The thing is to me it feels like people are claiming hitting ACs and DCs of 30 or 35 as supernatural.

Or a warrior having 5 fighting styles is supernatural.

Their actions neither break reality nor are powered by a supernatural source. It's just a really hard shot, a really tough dodge, or very difficult knowledge check.

It's "Batman in the Justice League" effect. He doesn't become supernatural to match Superman. He becomes an ace pilot, the world best detective, a master ninja, and his martial arts history is played way up.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Hawkeye and Lady Shiva is not supernatural but would be over level 10.

The issue is the rules don't allow for the size of bonuses and number of fighting styles and feats they would have.

It's a game limitations to make the game simple.

Wait...there's a downside to making the game simple? How can this be?

 

[Minigiant]

I stand mostly corrected - Lars is crazy. The guy are horeseback didn't do anything like what I suggested and even lars didn't do it while jumping horizontally like in my example. So until Lars can - I'm still going with supernatural

If he had 18 in STR and DEX and Expertise in Athletics maybe he could do it.