D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Minigiant]

In many/most editions (at least 3e, 4e, & 5e) strength is related to level. In 5e most classes can't get past 20 strength until after lvl 20. Strength over 20 is specifically "epic" and past level 20 in 5e.

So again, what level gives you the strength to do that? Why do keep ducking the question?

Or are you suggesting if I had a level 5 character with 50 strength when every other lvl 5 character has 18 strength that is somehow balanced? Or is balance and illusion and not important?

To be honest, balance is not that important to me.

Giants throw boulders starting at 19 strength.
a human can throw a boulder of their relative size with the same 19 strength.

So a commoner born with 19 strength can throw a boulder

 

[Gammadoodler]

Because game rules are not just for fantasy settings. Also fantasy settings are not all the same.

Our D&D setting is low magic and basically adheres to IRL physics and assumptions. Am I playing the game bad, wrong, no fun?

No. Your setting is your setting, and if you are having fun you're good.

That said, the game describes itself as a fantasy roleplaying game. If you want real world expectations, going to game book with the fire giant on the cover, 8 non-human races in the table of contents, and rules for divine intervention, and 90 pgs of spellcasting is a weird choice.

 

[Minigiant]

I am really not trying to go down a rabbit hole here and so don't need a response. But I'm trying to work this out in my head for my own uses in the future - so feel free to give one if you think it would help. (Thanks either way!)

Everyone in the world clearly doesn't have the potential to dunk a basketball at regulation height without assistance. Does requiring height make it extraordinary? Not everyone who wants to can hit a professionally thrown fastball with any noticeable chance (even great athletes from other sports). etc...

Is it different if in the world it takes a certain amount of Ki to call upon it in a way that's large enough to get a game effect from it? When would it pass from extraordinary to supernatural according to the base laws of the world?

If you're in a world that widely accepts magic (Dying Earth, Lord Darcy, Garrett Files, etc...), is magic considered "supernatural" still? Are mutants in the 616 extraordinary or supernatural? Hawkeye?

A human can dunk a basketball.
You still need the ordinary attributes of height and strength to do so.

Humans have a height and a strength built in them that is ordinary.

If they do not have the required height and require strength to dunk a basketball they need training in order to do so. That is extraordinary.

If their height and strength is still too low to gain the ability to dunk a ball via training they would require a supernatural ability to do it. That is supernatural.

 

[Gammadoodler]

No

I don't think they are synonymous, but the differences are, IMO, to minor or specific to matter in the context of this discussion. The difference is semantics, not substantive to the discussion.

A ghost is not "real" IMO. Therefore if there is a ghost is: magical/extraordinary/supernatural. Now, in the game context one could clearly each of those terms precisely to clarify those distinctions, and I would / will if I design my own D&D hack. But there is not game definition for those terms (in 4e/5e at least - can't remember earlier) for us to provide clear guidance or distinction.

Sooo. Not synonymous, but basically synonymous.

Let's circle back to the owlbears.. you said it's iffy..

Why?

They don't exist in the real world.
How can they be anything other than "magical/extraordinary/supernatural"?

 

[Minigiant]

If you're in a world that widely accepts magic (Dying Earth, Lord Darcy, Garrett Files, etc...), is magic considered "supernatural" still? Are mutants in the 616 extraordinary or supernatural? Hawkeye?

Extraordinary.

The X-Gene is extraordinary. Mutants are humans with a genetic variant.
Hawkeye is 100% human. Also extraordinary.

 

[Cadence]

A human can dunk a basketball.
You still need the ordinary attributes of height and strength to do so.

Humans have a height and a strength built in them that is ordinary.

If they do not have the required height and require strength to dunk a basketball they need training in order to do so. That is extraordinary.

Ahhhh.... the rabbit hole.... it's opening up with its big sharp nasty.... Anyway:

Is there a cut-off for how much training and practice is required to make it extraordinary? Most humans get formal training to read and write and do math. What reading level/speed would be ordinary and what would be extraordinary? Where is the line in arithmetic - algebra - calculus - epsilon/delta real analysis - measure theory - top level research level probabilist? In baseball between Rec league pitcher - high school pitcher - college pitcher - minor leagues - major leagues - all star level - hall of fame level? Chess for 1000 (newbie) - 1600 (ok high school team player) - 2000 (expert) - 2300 (master) - 2400 (international master) - grandmaster - world champion - best computer.

For some of those people with obvious talent still don't obtain their desired skill level even with massive amounts of training.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sooo. Not synonymous, but basically synonymous.

Let's circle back to the owlbears.. you said it's iffy..

Why?

They don't exist in the real world.
How can they be anything other than "magical/extraordinary/supernatural"?

Owlbears seem like just normal animals that don't happen to exist on Earth. I changed them to beasts in my game. There are plenty of animals that do not exist on Earth in my setting. There have also been plenty of animals in the Earth's past that no longer exist (many of which we know nothing about) and many more of such animals will exist in the Earth's future. I wouldn't consider those "supernatural" either.

 

[Cadence]

Owlbears seem like just normal animals that don't happen to exist on Earth. I changed them to beasts in my game. There are plenty of animals that do not exist on Earth in my setting. There have also been plenty of animals in the Earth's past that no longer exist (many of which we know nothing about) and many more of such animals will exist in the Earth's future. I wouldn't consider those "supernatural" either.

I imagine most fantasy worlds have perfectly ordinary (to that world) birds and trees that don't exist in the real world - but are "totally natural" there. (I wish I had more artistic talent, if so I would probably create more!)

For the Owlbear, does it matter how they came to be?
Are Rat People in the Garrett Files [ humanoid rats ] special if they only came about from wizards doing experiments?

 

[Minigiant]

Ahhhh.... the rabbit hole.... it's opening up with its big sharp nasty.... Anyway:

Is there a cut-off for how much training and practice is required to make it extraordinary? Most humans get formal training to read and write and do math. What reading level/speed would be ordinary and what would be extraordinary? Where is the line in arithmetic - algebra - calculus - epsilon/delta real analysis - measure theory - top level research level probabilist? In baseball between Rec league pitcher - high school pitcher - college pitcher - minor leagues - major leagues - all star level - hall of fame level? Chess for 1000 (newbie) - 1600 (ok high school team player) - 2000 (expert) - 2300 (master) - 2400 (international master) - grandmaster - world champion - best computer.

For some of those people with obvious talent still don't obtain their desired skill level even with massive amounts of training.

It's hard to explain but to me the way to get it

"Extraordinary is when you break the rules but don't break the laws"

Like Powerful Build.
An orc is still using the laws but the rule for an orc is different than the rules for human.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Owlbears seem like just normal animals that don't happen to exist on Earth. I changed them to beasts in my game. There are plenty of animals that do not exist on Earth in my setting. There have also been plenty of animals in the Earth's past that no longer exist (many of which we know nothing about) and many more of such animals will exist in the Earth's future. I wouldn't consider those "supernatural" either.

Sure, and I'd agree. How does this differ from dragons?