The Monk isn't MAD... he's ENRAGED!!!!

[Empath Negative]

How significantly better is a sword and board Fighter to a Monk if that monk largely ignores dexterity and wisdom?

A Fighter with a +5 Heavy Shield, +5 Fullplate, and 12 dex will have an AC of 32.

A lvl 20 Monk with +8 Armor bracers, a +6 dex item, and a +6 wisdom item, with 12 base dex would have an ac of 29.


I guess what I'm saying is what if you played the monk with largely the same stats you'd give a sword and board fighter?

How significantly more powerful would the fighter actually be?

 

[Dandu]

You can't possibly know that because it depends on player skill and item selection, therefore all attempts made to compare class power levels is meaningless!

 

[MerricB]

How significantly better is a sword and board Fighter to a Monk if that monk largely ignores dexterity and wisdom?

A Fighter with a +5 Heavy Shield, +5 Fullplate, and 12 dex will have an AC of 32.

A lvl 20 Monk with +8 Armor bracers, a +6 dex item, and a +6 wisdom item, with 12 base dex would have an ac of 29.


I guess what I'm saying is what if you played the monk with largely the same stats you'd give a sword and board fighter?

How significantly more powerful would the fighter actually be?

Fighter wins. You haven't given the fighter the equipment he actually would have given free choice. +5 Mithral Fullplate, and +6 gloves of dexterity ends up with an AC of 35.

Once you move to attacking, the Fighter once again has a definite edge, helped along by superior feats and an actual full attack bonus.

The one part where the monk eclipses the fighter is on saving throws, but having a good defense doesn't actually help you be effective, which is where the fighter shines: his attacks actually hit and deal damage, while the monk spends a lot of time not hitting.

 

[Sekhmet]

[MENTION=3586]MerricB[/MENTION] Doesn't Mithral Full Plate have max dex of 3? His AC would only be a 34.

 

[Vegepygmy]

How significantly more powerful would the fighter actually be?

Define "powerful."

 

[MerricB]

[MENTION=3586]MerricB[/MENTION] Doesn't Mithral Full Plate have max dex of 3? His AC would only be a 34.

Ah yes, getting confused between the Dex and armour check bonuses for Mithral. (It gets easier for the fighter in PF, actually - they get class bonuses to the max dex!)

Cheers!

 

[kitcik]

How significantly better is a sword and board Fighter to a Monk if that monk largely ignores dexterity and wisdom?

A Fighter with a +5 Heavy Shield, +5 Fullplate, and 12 dex will have an AC of 32.

A lvl 20 Monk with +8 Armor bracers, a +6 dex item, and a +6 wisdom item, with 12 base dex would have an ac of 29.


I guess what I'm saying is what if you played the monk with largely the same stats you'd give a sword and board fighter?

How significantly more powerful would the fighter actually be?

With all the money the fighter saved by not getting those three expensive magic items, the fighter will buy all of the useful monk class skills and have loot left over...

 

[emoplato]

Fighter wins because he can afford to be a harasser and still have plenty of item slots to fill.

 

[Empath Negative]

With all the money the fighter saved by not getting those three expensive magic items, the fighter will buy all of the useful monk class skills and have loot left over...

Didn't the fighter get... two expensive magic items?

 

[Empath Negative]

Fighter wins. You haven't given the fighter the equipment he actually would have given free choice. +5 Mithral Fullplate, and +6 gloves of dexterity ends up with an AC of 35.

Once you move to attacking, the Fighter once again has a definite edge, helped along by superior feats and an actual full attack bonus.

The one part where the monk eclipses the fighter is on saving throws, but having a good defense doesn't actually help you be effective, which is where the fighter shines: his attacks actually hit and deal damage, while the monk spends a lot of time not hitting.

You know, outside of greater weapon focus... I don't think a fighter really has that significant of an advantage in hitting over the Monk.

A lvl 20 Monk is 15/15/15/10/5.

A lvl 20 fighter is 20/15/10/5.

Two rolls of +15 has to have a greater likelihood of landing a strike than a single roll of +20 in all but the worst of circumstances, and in the best of circumstances the Monk gets a bonus hit.