The more I read the rules...

[Pielorinho]

I do make alterations to the game based on my 'common sense', but I like to know how they differ from the RAW so I can warn my players about them, just in case their 'common sense' is a little different.

That's a good idea. It's also a good idea to let the players know if you believe the rules require a certain interpretation that may be unclear to them, even if you believe a close reading makes it crystal clear.

Communicating about rules is a great thing to do in any case.

Daniel

 

[KarinsDad]

Part of my use of the pejorative "carelessness" in this discussion is
But part is based on my experience with the 3.X rules themselves, like the distinction that they insist on making between humanoids' unarmed strikes and other creatures' natural weapons...when humanoids' unarmed strikes fit the very PHB glossary definition of natural weapons.

I agree. One area where I think WotC is careless is in editing. Several of the newer products have come out with a lot of obvious flaws in them. Simple examples are the sample Anarchic Initiate in Complete Psionic or the sample Monk in PHB II who are illegal according to the rules.

 

[Alzrius]

Communicating about rules is a great thing to do in any case.

No doubt. The problem is that most groups don't sit down ahead of time to discuss cover-to-cover the books they'll be using to make sure everyone agrees on the rules. Different interpretations of the rules usually happen only when they come up and people realize that they're reading them differently, at which point, the debate starts.

 

[Fat Daddy]

I voted "RAW is where I start, and I modify as needed." As I sit here reading all the replies to this, I see a lot of the same arguments I have seen in several other threads. While I find valid points on both sides, I feel that it boils down to making the game workable and fun for you and your group.
We (my group) tend to apply our own 'common sense' to the rules. While this may not work for you and yours it works for us. The whole trick IMHO is to find what works for you, be it RAW or Totally Houseruled, or some combination. It's a game, do whatever makes it fun!

 

[Li Shenron]

the less I like RAW.

Basically, running 3.X (indeed, most RPGs) RAW seems like an excuse to stop thinking. That may not be true, strictly speaking, but it just seems that way to me. Then again, what I do for a living is read rules...

I'm wondering how others feel.

The latest example:

I'm contemplating designing a Halfling, Gnome, or other Small race mounted combatant. I was refreshing myself on the rules of mounted combat and came across the rules on mounted overruns.

During a mounted overrun, the mount can make a "hoof attack."

RAW, not claw or anything else, just a 'hoof attack." This, of course, sucks if your PC is riding a mount that doesn't have hooves, like a War Dog, or a Dire Shark.

After 5 years of playing 3.0 (and briefly 3.5) I am convinced that the rules are very good, but only until you need to sort out an unusual situation or when you have a combination of rules. That's the point when I start being a real DM and make my own decisions. Trying to sort out all the implications of the RAW in a combination always result in long arguments at the end of which whatever the decision the game is not much better or worse.

 

[Plane Sailing]

That's where science becomes art.

Even the most clearly written definitive statement will be interpreted differently depending upon the reader.

Hence all the work attempting to devise formal grammars for the specification of software analysis and design (and the general lack of success in implementing them apart from in very specific development situations!)

 

[Plane Sailing]

Time Stands Still requires your spell to affect everything in the universe, no save, no SR, no line of effect required. It's more like a fairly potent Epic effect. And what about creatures on other planes? Are they affected? What about creatures inside an Antimagic Field?

You Go Fast has none of those problems. It's only affecting one creature, who isn't going to be resisting anyway.

I'm happy with the You Go Fast solution to Time Stop; There is a way that Time Stands Still could work though - and that is to give it an area effect. For instance, if Time Stop froze time in a 120ft radius of the caster, and only the caster was unaffected by it (i.e. those outside can't enter the area of frozen time while it lasts), then that might be a workable 9th level spell without getting into the whole 'entire space-time frame reference' being halted

But as I said, I like the You Go Fast solution better - it is neat and self contained.

I wonder, what level would you put a Timestop spell that only lasted 1 round?

 

[wmasters]

Having received a few nasty cuts from my cats as they raced across the floor, and, incidentally, *me*, I can easily see claw attacks working on an overrun.

The creature that has just overrun is in an ideal mode to deal claw damage: They have both
their full weight and a vigorous push behind their claws.

But the RAW doesn't reflect that at all. Unless your cat was a mount and the rider had trample. If your cat, or indeed a horse overruns without a rider then there is no hoof, claw, tentacle or toe nail attack. Now that's a wierd ruling in the RAW if you ask me.

 

[Storyteller01]

A hoof, unlike claws and bites, can be performed crushing the target underfoot, almost as an afterthought. Claws, bites and most other natural weapons require more deliberate motions to deliver.

Not really. Speaking as a victim of many midnight cat overruns (we have three, they chase each other, we happen to be good obstacles ), they use their claws for traction, and leave some hefty scratches after the fact. Similar enough to the scratches they leave when you wrestle with them, at any rate.

 

[Slobber Monster]

I just ran into the trampling mount problem while statting up some rhinoceros riding orcs. Since a rhino doesn't have hoof attacks, technically it can't do any damage on a trample no matter how small the opposing creature. Even a rhino advanced to huge size can't do it. Yet the huge-sized triceratops, which is basically the same creature as an advanced rhino, has the Trample extraordinary ability built in.

But... the Trample extraordinary ability doesn't do anything for a mounted overrun either ...it uses totally different mechanics in fact. So neither a triceratops or rhino can step on someone for damage during a mounted overrun ...even though the triceratops can run over smaller creatures for damage on its own without knocking them prone.

Sigh.