The Myth of the Necessity of Magic Items

[wayne62682]

I don't think it's a myth at all, its an effect from the design of 3.5. The game emphasizes magic items, so much that the rules even state that you should be able to BUY THEM instead of the old-school methodology where you had to find them as treasure. Fighters NEED magic items, or they're even more pathetic than usual (I won't go into that diatribe here, but I'm sure we've all heard it before).

Low-magic D&D does not work unless you make copious rules adjustments. This is by design. Magic items are practically necessary unless you play near-TPK games all the time, because in a low/no magic area the PCs are not going to be able to cope with monsters face-to-face.

 

[sukael]

I agree with the OP, it is a myth that all these items are needed. If you remove them but keep the monsters as they are, the higher level games should become a lot more fun and challenging.

I personally don't find trying to beat a monster with DR 15/magic and silver and blink at will with only a +1 longsword and the Spring Attack feat chain all that fun

 

[VirgilCaine]

I think I prefer magic items over gross generalizations and emotionally loaded arguments.

...okay, got that off my chest. For me, magic items simply make the game more fun. The behavior you describe is not something I've seen.

Totally agree.

 

[el-remmen]

No, you don't need a ton of magical items (i.e. the standard suggested amount by RAW)

Yes, you need to make some adjustments to the rules to make it work.

But it can and does work. . .

I don't know if my games are "low magic" - some people describe them that way - but I can't tell - seems more like "moderate" to me (with the standard amount being "high" in my eyes).

And yes, magical items are fun - but in order for them to be fun to me and my group they need to be doled out/created in moderation.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Magic items are now so generic too as to be unnecessary. Wow, a +1 sword. Geez, that's original.

Of course, they're as original as the DM wants them to be. The DMG and every single magic item containing source book has unique magic weapons or armour. The generic ones are just to make live for the DM easier, since he has a codified system of creating the most generic bonuses. Then he can tack-on wacky stuff. Like the special ones in the DMG.

And you'll wonder how less generic even a dumb +3 keen rapier becomes, if it is called "Astaroth, the Red Thorn". A cleric in an old (3.0) campaign found it and (just because it was named) was so excited with it, that he used it up to level 20, permanently upgrading it. Grated, that was about 5 years ago... - but it should still hold true.

 

[JustKim]

When I play a high-level wizard, I hardly remember what magic items I have in my haversack. They're just not as important as my spells. When I play a high-level fighter, I always know where my +3 keen frost adamantine falchion is.

There is a marked difference between fireballing a mob of ghouls without +1 DC from a headband, and charging the vrock with any old stick you found lying at the side of the road. Equipment is necessary for the survivability of nonmagical classes.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

The only thing that's really affected, IMO, is the CR system. But since that's only a rough guideline, anyway, its no big deal.

In my experience, the factor that matters is the players. A group of smart, experienced, tactically minded players will do just fine in a lower-magic game without the DM having to pull many punches. A relatively less experienced group, or one that isn't as interested in the tactical aspects, will be hurt more. In their case, the magic items are the safety margin; the +1 sword becomes the offset for the player that took Skill Focus (Survival) instead of Weapon Focus (longsword). The gap between the combat-twinks in a low-magic game and the casual player in a high-magic game is pretty small and can be papered over. The difference between the munchkins in a high-magic game and casual players in a low-magic game is so great that it's essentially not the same game anymore.

It's not the presence of magic items that grates, though, or even the perceived necessity. It's the sense of entitlement and ready availability that the wealth-by-level guidelines seem to have fostered.

 

[Pbartender]

There is a marked difference between fireballing a mob of ghouls without +1 DC from a headband, and charging the vrock with any old stick you found lying at the side of the road. Equipment is necessary for the survivability of nonmagical classes.

Which is a large part of the reason my players and I have been very, very happy with Iron Heroes... Your character is good because he is good, not because his equipment is (though proper equipment can help).

In IH, you can charge that vrock with any old stick you found lying at the side of the road and have a reasonable chance of holding your own.


Eh... It suits us better. Some people, though, like the D&D paradigm of getting increasingly better stuff. There's a certain Christmas morning feel when you discover that you've just found a +3 Vorpal Keen Flaming Throwing Returning Bastard Sword of Vicious Wounding, and you've got the Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use it.

 

[nute]

I have a campaign-specific house rule that ANY magical item with greater than a +4 total bonus (or equivalent) has a name and history behind it that can be learned, unless it's come from another plane, in which case the exotic nature of its origin is reflected in its abilities.

 

[icedrake]

I think I prefer magic items over gross generalizations and emotionally loaded arguments.

...okay, got that off my chest. For me, magic items simply make the game more fun. The behavior you describe is not something I've seen.

I agree here. If you keep spell casters as is, there's no reason not to play one, heck, it lets the fighter/mages to being pretty more awesome than your standard fighter since they can employ magic to make up for any weaknesses they might have. They do have less HP than a fighter, but the arcane power should more than make up for it.

How do you deal with the divine casters? I guess clerics or druids don't get to show up their true powers since they're stuck using all their spells healing people instead of doing damage or anything else in combat. Wow, mages doing dps, warriors tryign to hold aggro and healers dropping all their spells to keep up the tanks, that sounds a lot like an MMO...

Roy's thoughts on magic weapons

Personally, I hate "low" magic games. If you're going to do it, you have to ban the caster classes. Either arcane and divine or both. Bard and other such mixed casters are fine to keep since they suck so much anyway, but clerics/wizards need to go for the game to balance out correctly. I would hate to be a figher in that game. As my power level stays about the same, the wizard's increases significantly, even more so than in a normal game. It places too much emphesis on the casters and not enough on the fighters.

A low to mid level "low magic" game could work out fairly well, but anything past level 8 would require the party to face significantly more dangerous encounters. What happens if the 10-15 dr creature one-shots the caster? There goes all your dps if you don't start fudging the guy's AC so the fighters can power attack through his dr.

How much house-ruling do you make on the modules? How many times do you fudge the dice rolls for your players in a given game? How many have died?