Maybe instead of a simple counterspell system (as others have said, it can lead to tedium), we should look at some kind of way for spells to interact and interfere with each other in interesting ways beyond just works/doesn't work. Say, a sleet storm spell makes aoe fire spells into short-duration fog clouds instead, or lightning effect + water effect changes the area of the lightning effect.
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- Thread starter Dannyalcatraz
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Maybe instead of a simple counterspell system (as others have said, it can lead to tedium), we should look at some kind of way for spells to interact and interfere with each other in interesting ways beyond just works/doesn't work. Say, a sleet storm spell makes aoe fire spells into short-duration fog clouds instead, or lightning effect + water effect changes the area of the lightning effect.
I left M:tG after 6th...
(still have my old cards & decks, though)
(still have my old cards & decks, though)
Crazy Jerome
First Post
I'd like to see "counter spelling" be embedded into the skill portion of the game, instead of discrete spells. Something like this:
The PC wizard readies an action to counter the magic of the goblin witch doctor. The witch doctor begins to cast the spell. The wizard and witch doctor make opposed rolls to gain control of this magic. If one wins by a lot, he gets his way. For closer results (say within 5 points of a tie), the two are now locked into a fight for the magic, and the round moves on to everyone else. When the wizard's turn comes around (in Next, now immediately before the witch doctor), he can drop the counter attempt or continue it. If he continues, the witch doctor can continue the casting or abandon it for some other action (but not casting a new spell).
If the wizard grabs control of the spell, he can then turn it back onto the witch doctor or drain it for some other benefit or strangle it out entirely. If he does more than try to strangle it, though, the witch doctor gets to fight back, as the control doesn't get acted upon until next round.
So starting a spell in the vicinity of hostile casters is like pulling out a slippery hand grenade. You never really know what is going to happen.
To make it even more interesting, the opposed skill check is based on the casting stat of the initiated magic. When a cleric casts, any countering is based on Wis checks. A wizard can try, but is typically at a disadvantage countering a cleric, and vice versa.
The PC wizard readies an action to counter the magic of the goblin witch doctor. The witch doctor begins to cast the spell. The wizard and witch doctor make opposed rolls to gain control of this magic. If one wins by a lot, he gets his way. For closer results (say within 5 points of a tie), the two are now locked into a fight for the magic, and the round moves on to everyone else. When the wizard's turn comes around (in Next, now immediately before the witch doctor), he can drop the counter attempt or continue it. If he continues, the witch doctor can continue the casting or abandon it for some other action (but not casting a new spell).
If the wizard grabs control of the spell, he can then turn it back onto the witch doctor or drain it for some other benefit or strangle it out entirely. If he does more than try to strangle it, though, the witch doctor gets to fight back, as the control doesn't get acted upon until next round.
So starting a spell in the vicinity of hostile casters is like pulling out a slippery hand grenade. You never really know what is going to happen.
To make it even more interesting, the opposed skill check is based on the casting stat of the initiated magic. When a cleric casts, any countering is based on Wis checks. A wizard can try, but is typically at a disadvantage countering a cleric, and vice versa.
I don't understand this... What's a spell? How do you counter it? I mean I might have a goblin shaman throwing screaming skulls at you, or a witch coven may be tossing threefold curses around a battlefield, or an ice queen can be conjuring slates of ice under your feet, or an Aspect of Orcus could be sapping the life force out of everything in a 3 mile radius. How do you counter it? What do you counter it with?
I can see scenarios where a ritual is being cast, and a PC wizard might begin a counter chant to delay or disrupt the ritual. But that kind of stuff is where skills like arcana/religion come in handy.
Also isn't this the domain of immediate actions? Goblin Shaman tosses a screaming skull at you, if it would be a near hit, you counter it with an immdeiate action Shield so it misses. A death knight tosses a fireball at you, you counter it with an immediate action fire shield, absorbing some of the damage.
I can see scenarios where a ritual is being cast, and a PC wizard might begin a counter chant to delay or disrupt the ritual. But that kind of stuff is where skills like arcana/religion come in handy.
Also isn't this the domain of immediate actions? Goblin Shaman tosses a screaming skull at you, if it would be a near hit, you counter it with an immdeiate action Shield so it misses. A death knight tosses a fireball at you, you counter it with an immediate action fire shield, absorbing some of the damage.
Crazy Jerome
First Post
Was this directed at my post, or the topic in general? I wasn't sure from context.
Kavon
Explorer
Personally, I'm not sure making Counterspell something that takes up a spell slot in and of itself is a very good idea. So some alternative way of doing it would be my prefered approach.
[MENTION=54877]Crazy Jerome[/MENTION]: Couldn't exp you, so I'll just say you've got some pretty cool ideas there. Makes for some nice spellcaster dueling ^^
[MENTION=54877]Crazy Jerome[/MENTION]: Couldn't exp you, so I'll just say you've got some pretty cool ideas there. Makes for some nice spellcaster dueling ^^
Except when you counterspell the spell that is gonna kill your whole party, or heal an enemy that's was almost dead, etc.
Texicles
First Post
I agree with this. The fiction of spell casting (especially for Wizardy-types) suggests the need for hand-waving and saying the magic words.
In my mind, grapple should be able to prevent the first and some "throat punch" type ability should be able to prevent the second. After all, you can't very well cast a spell (or at least the one you intended) by saying "Klaatu barada nikt-OOF!"
Mattachine
Adventurer
Counterspelling has to be either more likely to succeed or use less "actions or resources" than simply damaging the caster. That's why there was no focus on counterspelling in 1e. You simply had to hit the other caster with magic missile or something.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
Control magic comes in two forms:
Creative use of rules to make the game more challenging and tactical.
Obnoxious lockdown that makes the game boring and unplayable.
If D&D5e includes the former, that's great. I'd love to see some creative use of mundane and magical means to resist, counter, and otherwise impede the general nature of the magic user to become invincible.
If D&D5e includes the latter, it's likely to be a deal breaker for me. As a long-time player of MTG, I've played in far too many games where the guy with the blue-control deck whips out a turn-3 lockdown and keeps you from basically playing the game while they hit you for 2-3 points per turn, making it more efficient to fold rather than wait the 8 turns for them to get around to killing you.
IMO: the latter form of counter-magic would also seem to include a lot of the MTG equivalent of "instants" or as we know them: Immediate Interrupts. I'm okay with those in moderation, but building something around the idea of constantly interrupting your opponent on their turn just makes me bored and irritated.
Creative use of rules to make the game more challenging and tactical.
Obnoxious lockdown that makes the game boring and unplayable.
If D&D5e includes the former, that's great. I'd love to see some creative use of mundane and magical means to resist, counter, and otherwise impede the general nature of the magic user to become invincible.
If D&D5e includes the latter, it's likely to be a deal breaker for me. As a long-time player of MTG, I've played in far too many games where the guy with the blue-control deck whips out a turn-3 lockdown and keeps you from basically playing the game while they hit you for 2-3 points per turn, making it more efficient to fold rather than wait the 8 turns for them to get around to killing you.
IMO: the latter form of counter-magic would also seem to include a lot of the MTG equivalent of "instants" or as we know them: Immediate Interrupts. I'm okay with those in moderation, but building something around the idea of constantly interrupting your opponent on their turn just makes me bored and irritated.
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