D&D 5E The new Dungeons & Dragons Starter Set - and online tools?

[Zaran]

You know what tentatively bothers me about this? The notion that it's okay if D&D requires a computer. The "around the campfire" scenario isn't abstract; it's one that I've been through many times, but more than that, I really, REALLY dislike the notion that you must use an app/online program/whatever to make your own character.

Now, that's assuming that the character generation they're talking about is an online or digital component. If it's something else- an SRD booklet, for instance- that's a whole different ball of wax. But to me, the very definition of a crippleware starter set for D&D is one where I can't make my own character. That's an epic fail and almost guaranteed no-buy from me (on that product- I can wait for the PH). And I'm one of those people that you have to really do a poor job on some new setting-neutral D&D stuff for me to not buy it. Hell, I got the 4e starter, and it was atrocious.

As to the argument that the Starter Set isn't aimed at me: B.S. It's aimed at two groups: 1. People new to D&D; and 2. People hungry to buy the new D&D material that they've been waiting for two years for. I'm FIRMLY in camp 2, and I actively want to give WotC my money on this, but no character generation in the box is just indefensible, at least to my conception of what the very notion of playing D&D is. Making a character is one of the funnest parts of the game for me.

A computer might be out of the question on a camping trip but a tablet would work. Maybe they are coming out with a tablet tool.

 

[Callahan09]

So we asked Mike, essentially, if the Starter Set includes character generation. Then he responded that it does not, but that we will be able to create characters anyway. Has anybody asked, at the very least, "Does this mean we can make characters with a free website, app, or pdf? Or does it indicate some OTHER way that we'll be able to create characters?" I'm not a frequent twitter-er, so I'm not sure how I'd cut that down to 140chars (or whatever the limit is), but yeah, seems like a useful question that actually *might* get a helpful response from him.

 

[Patrick McGill]

So we asked Mike, essentially, if the Starter Set includes character generation. Then he responded that it does not, but that we will be able to create characters anyway. Has anybody asked, at the very least, "Does this mean we can make characters with a free website, app, or pdf? Or does it indicate some OTHER way that we'll be able to create characters?" I'm not a frequent twitter-er, so I'm not sure how I'd cut that down to 140chars (or whatever the limit is), but yeah, seems like a useful question that actually *might* get a helpful response from him.

He's being intentionally vague about, can't answer straight about certain things quite yet it seems.

Personally, I believe he is alluding the Adventurer's League player's guide thingy. If that is free (which it is), and has character creation, then anyone can walk into an FLGS and grab one to roll up a dude with. We'll just have to see for sure, however.

 

[DMZ2112]

So we asked Mike, essentially, if the Starter Set includes character generation. Then he responded that it does not, but that we will be able to create characters anyway. Has anybody asked, at the very least, "Does this mean we can make characters with a free website, app, or pdf? Or does it indicate some OTHER way that we'll be able to create characters?" I'm not a frequent twitter-er, so I'm not sure how I'd cut that down to 140chars (or whatever the limit is), but yeah, seems like a useful question that actually *might* get a helpful response from him.

He has stated in response to numerous repetitive questions that there is a digital initiative that he can't say more about right now.

I don't blame you for not being a Twitter expert; finding anything on that site that isn't brand new is like pulling velociraptor teeth.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm not sure that character creation is on everybody's list of "most basic concepts." Playing a character and having adventures, sure. For a beginner, it's not easy to create a character when you don't know what is good, bad, meaningful, or useful.

I can only speak for myself, but creating a character was the 1st thing I've ever done in RPGing. And after that, I actually can't remember if I ever played a pre-gen character at all...

To me, character generation is as fundamental to D&D as elves, Strength scores and hit points. I find its omission from the box people are supposed to use to start playing to be baffling and distressing. I just don't see the sense in it.

Uhm... I think I understand that character generation is not strictly needed for the purpose they have decided for the Starter Set. But still, in terms of space required, including character generation instead of pre-gens should not have increased the price that much. 5 pregens characters x 5 levels = 25 character sheets + reference material (presumably spells, special abilities etc.), doesn't sound much smaller than putting small tables for the 4 core classes levels 1-5, compact info on 4 races, and a few lines to explain how to roll ability scores.

 

[Callahan09]

He has stated in response to numerous repetitive questions that there is a digital initiative that he can't say more about right now.

I don't blame you for not being a Twitter expert; finding anything on that site that isn't brand new is like pulling velociraptor teeth.

Thanks for the response. I agree about Twitter, it can be a little cumbersome trying to find your way around over there sometimes.

I'm not surprised in the least that there *is* a digital initiative, and that there is a lot he won't say about that initiative right now. I guess what I'm wondering is, is the digital initiative the totality of what we can look forward to in terms of character generation between the release of the Starter Set and the release of the PHB? Or might there be some other way that doesn't require an electronic device and/or internet access in order to utilize.

This news about a Player's Guide at the Adventurers League sounds like it could be exactly that... Not sure how I feel about it, to be honest, because many folks don't have an LGS to visit in order to GET the Player's Guide. Sounds like it's going to come down to either a digital solution or walking into an LGS. For those of us that order our games from Amazon, the digital solution is just fine, as the process of even ordering the book in the first place required a digital solution! Haha. For others who buy at Barnes & Noble, they are probably out of luck. Those with the best situation, of course, are those fortunate enough to have a nice LGS to visit. Assuming any of these assumptions are correct.

 

[Kinak]

I thought the same thing while reading that.

Yeah, it seems to fit the bits and pieces we've been getting. The conversion rate for organized play is also potentially pretty exciting, depending on how they'd handle it.

But we'll see how they handle it. Yesterday I was assuming character creation rules were in the starter set. Who knows where they'll be tomorrow?

The article just said the guide is to "to let you know how [the storyline] comes together." It sounds more like that Sundering facebook quiz than game rules.

You may very easily be right, but the paragraph it's in doesn't seem to talk about story at all... just rules and characters.

"As a player, you’ll create a character for the D&D Adventurers League. You’ll be using the same rules to play at a convention, a store, or any sort of public event. There will be a D&D Adventurers League Player’s Guide available to let you know how it all comes together."

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Uhm... I think I understand that character generation is not strictly needed for the purpose they have decided for the Starter Set. But still, in terms of space required, including character generation instead of pre-gens should not have increased the price that much. 5 pregens characters x 5 levels = 25 character sheets + reference material (presumably spells, special abilities etc.), doesn't sound much smaller than putting small tables for the 4 core classes levels 1-5, compact info on 4 races, and a few lines to explain how to roll ability scores.

Well, the current character creation rules including equipment lists, class tables and descriptions, races, skills and backgrounds, spells, feats, and the information on how to go through the character creation process itself total 147 pages. Even assuming you could cut down the spells to only the level 1-3 spells, and include only the information about classes up to 5th level you'd still only be able to cut about 60 pages or so out. That means it would still be about 80-90 pages of character creation info. Given the Starter Set currently only has a 32 page rulebook, you'd be tripling the size of the book to include character creation.

That HAS to come with a cost.

 

[Callahan09]

This twitter post seemed interesting...

https://twitter.com/mikemearls/statuses/469183298124517379
Mike Mearls ‏@mikemearls 8m
@boymonster @rdonoghue People get really upset if you suggest that as a quick way to get into a game.

Hmmm...

Is that a reference to all the pestering folks have thrown in his direction since yesterday in regards to the Starter Set not having character generation rules included?

(Apologies if the Twitter posting thing comes out all weird, I wasn't really sure how to post a Tweet here)

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

"As a player, you’ll create a character for the D&D Adventurers League. You’ll be using the same rules to play at a convention, a store, or any sort of public event. There will be a D&D Adventurers League Player’s Guide available to let you know how it all comes together."

Yes. I assume that this book will be similar to the Living Greyhawk Campaign Guide or the Living Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. It'll explain which options are legal in Adventurer's League. It'll explain which optional rules the campaign uses and rules specific to the campaign(like what happens when you die, how to fill out the forms at the end of adventures, etc).

It's certainly possible that they'll also include the character creation rules in their entirety just to keep them all in one place and to provide them for free to everyone. There's certainly some precedent. The Swordmage class was revealed specifically for LFR since the Forgotten Realms book for 4e hadn't come out yet.