D&D (2024) The new spell creation rules

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I agree that it is peculiar, though I doubt it is an oversight. On a guess looking at the Spells in question, it's probably about encouraging genre expectations (such as Control Weather taking 10 minites so yoy can'teasily weaponize it, but it takes resources because it is not a Ritual), which this Create Spell process is about letting a Wizard and DM peraonalize.

Control Weather is a wobbler, I agree, but I think the 10 minute casting time is a bigger resource than the spell slot, because if you're going to cast any other spells afterward, it's because you are immediately entering into battle, and your opponents might well spot you during the casting period and pepper you with arrows.

Non-combat uses of the spell are things like ending a drought, in which case, the spell slot issue is irrelevant.

I don't think anyone would have ever batted an eye at it being a ritual spell by default.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

OK, so reverse what I said:

Is everyone who voted against me for Most Attractive Wizard my enemy? Is everyone in the opposing 100,000-strong my enemy? Are all my ex-girlfriends my enemy? I guess we'll find out when I start blasting away with Fireball!

This is an extremely powerful upgrade to spells and basically suggests that there is a sentience underlying arcane magic. That's something 2E briefly flirted with (see Vecna and the Serpent), but it's a wild thing to imply via spell mechanics for a class without further explication.

i think it just hooks onto who you consider allies/enemies. that said, sentient magic as an idea absolutely balls and now i want to see that in an actual setting.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

i think it just hooks onto who you consider allies/enemies.

Ooh, a new way to handle mysteries in D&D:

"The person who murdered Mr. Boddy is, by definition, my enemy. All you suspects, crowd into the billiards room; I'm going to cast Whizbang's Chain Lightning."

that said, sentient magic as an idea absolutely balls and now i want to see that in an actual setting.

The Serpent that 2E Vecna believed was the source and embodiment of all magic is a hell of a lot cooler than the Weave that WotC has now largely made the default in 5E.

EDIT: I believe the Serpent was also in the 2E College of Wizardry, which makes sense, since Bruce Cordell also wrote Die, Vecna, Die!

 

[Parmandur]

Control Weather is a wobbler, I agree, but I think the 10 minute casting time is a bigger resource than the spell slot, because if you're going to cast any other spells afterward, it's because you are immediately entering into battle, and your opponents might well spot you during the casting period and pepper you with arrows.

Non-combat uses of the spell are things like ending a drought, in which case, the spell slot issue is irrelevant.

I don't think anyone would have ever batted an eye at it being a ritual spell by default.

I can't say that I disagree. I think "story" is probably the only reason, so I think thimerosal ability to add it is pretty neutral, as quite a few DMs are probably willing to handwoven the Dpells I can see where this applies. But this makes it RAW.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

How could you cast a spell (even one with no components) while Paralyzed? Paralyzed makes you Incapacitated, which makes it so you can't take Actions. No matter how few components your spell has, it still uses your Action economy.

 

[Charlaquin]

That's so weird. But it feels like an oversight. What spells are worth spending 10+ minutes on that also merit burning a spell slot to cast?

I think it's less about meriting a spell slot to cast and more about not wanting wizards to be able to cast them without having to prepare them.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think it's less about meriting a spell slot to cast and more about not wanting wizards to be able to cast them without having to prepare them.

It's also an easy way to make it so that you have to take them instead of some other spell, if you want to go that route.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

How could you cast a spell (even one with no components) while Paralyzed? Paralyzed makes you Incapacitated, which makes it so you can't take Actions. No matter how few components your spell has, it still uses your Action economy.

Boo, I was thinking of prior versions of paralyzation. I had forgotten its 5E definition.

Instead, substitute a Teleport spell that can be cast while shackled to the wall.

 

[Parmandur]

How could you cast a spell (even one with no components) while Paralyzed? Paralyzed makes you Incapacitated, which makes it so you can't take Actions. No matter how few components your spell has, it still uses your Action economy.

The Spell component one bothers me a bit, but not because it breaks the Spell. I don't like it edgining in on the Sorcerer's Metamagic turf.

 

[tetrasodium]

That's so weird. But it feels like an oversight. What spells are worth spending 10+ minutes on that also merit burning a spell slot to cast?

And among them hoe many are arcane?

The 2014 corebooks provided the absolute bare minimum in guidance on how to make custom spells, something I as a player and DM have done for a long time. So I was thrilled that the April 2023 UA provides concrete guidance for how this works for wizards -- at least as long as one is modifying a published spell. I hope we'll see expanded guidelines in the DMG for creating one from scratch, although not doing so is a great way to ensure more sales of books with new spells to be modified.

But I have a few quibbles:

First, making abilities into spells is the new hotness in this UA, but in this case, it means someone playing a ninth level or above wizard has to flip back and forth through the spell listings just to get the rules for making new spells. I suspect they were made spells so the process wouldn't be a big intimidating wall of text, but from a usability standpoint, this isn't great. Just make them abilities and stick them in the class write-up so the wizard player can find them all in one spot.

Second, Modify Spell doesn't change the level of the spell it modifies. For some changes, that's fine. For others, well, I have some concerns.

Here's the text of Modify Spell, just for reference:



So, multiple things about this list:

1. As has been pointed out on the other threads, Create Spell strips the Arcane tag off these modified spells, so you can only modify them once. If you want to modify spells more, you'll need to gain some levels.
2. At level 18, when you can cast ninth level spells, you can make a total of five modifications to a spell.
3. Some of these changes are better than others and I feel the most powerful changes need a level adjustment on them, similar to how spells were balanced in 3E, with both spell creation and metamagic.
   1. Removing a non-expensive material component isn't a big deal. I can't imagine anyone going through the hassle of customizing a spell this way, since you'll need to spend gold to make the change, but sure, that's fine.
   2. Removing Verbal and Somatic components, on the other hand, is more of an issue. It's a tactical upgrade to remove these from illusion and enchantment spells, but it makes any spell modified this way one that can be cast while paralyzed. Every wizard fighting ghouls, for instance, needs to do this. But just removing Verbal components means than that Silence spell no longer holds any terror for the prepared wizard, taking a huge tactical element off the table. Removing Verbal or Somatic components are worth bumping up the resultant spell a level, IMO, and removing both is worth two level bumps.
   3. Making Concentration spells that can't be interrupted by damage is definitely worth at least a level bump.
   4. The most dangerous damage type, Force, isn't one a spell can be modified to do, but I'm confident that there's someone out there with a spreadsheet that lists which of Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison or Thunder is the least commonly resisted energy type. (Also, having Necrotic on the list, but not Radiant, feels like an oversight.) The moment an evoker hits level nine, they should be modifying all of their damaging spells to whichever is the most likely type to bypass resistances. If these were all roughly equally likely to be resisted, it wouldn't be worth a level bump, but I suspect there are some significant disparities. This might be worth a level bump.
   5. Modifying range seems powerful, but in actual practice, I'm not sure that being able to cast an attack spell 600 feet away is a big deal, although it's probably a great way to irritate the party's archer.
   6. Are there really many spells that take 10 minutes to cast that aren't Ritual spells already? And if so, why aren't they? This feels like they're empowering players to fix poor editing in the 2024 edition.
   7. Finally, making spells that automatically ignore allies is a huge change, especially since "allies" doesn't have a definition that I can see. Is everyone who voted me Most Attractive Wizard permanently my ally? Is everyone in my army of 100,000 conscripts all my ally? Are people who secretly did something nice to me that I don't know about my ally? I guess we'll find out when I start blasting away with Fireball! Even in the less extreme scenarios, being able to throw fireballs around in small spaces filled with the close-range attacker members of my party is a game changer. Without a level bump, why wouldn't every single group immediately subsidize Fireball being customized the moment their wizard hits level 9? Anything that obviously everyone should immediately do is no longer a matter of player choice -- it's overpowered. This absolutely needs a level bump, maybe two.

As someone who's been playing a gnome illusionist for more than 15 years, if the spell creation system goes in as-is, fantastic, I look forward to tweaking all the spells to be still and silent and, depending how I feel about the rest of the party, ignore allies.

As a DM for a lot of casters, though, I don't want to have to house rule a system that is such a good foundation for both players and DMs to have a lot of fun.

I agree with a lot of this & like the idea of modify/create spell but something about the trio feels like it's a placeholder for a revised version of the 3.5 spell creation rules or the ELH epic spell creation rules. Something about the trio just feels off.

step one, cast this

Spoiler: Modify Spell

Y SPELL
4th-Level Transmutation Spell (Ritual; Wizard)
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Self
Component: V, S, M (your spellbook)
Duration: Instantaneous
Using arcane formulas in your Spellbook, you
magically alter one Arcane spell you have
prepared. You can change the spell’s color,
sound, and smell, and you make one of the
following modifications to the spell:
Components. Remove one of the spell’s
components: Verbal, Somatic, or Material. You
can’t remove the Material component of a spell
that consumes that component.
Concentration. If the spell requires
Concentration, damage can’t break your
Concentration on the spell.
Damage Type. If the spell has a damage type,
replace it with one of the following types: Acid,
Cold, Fire, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, or
Thunder. If the spell has multiple damage
types, you can change only one of them.
Range. If the spell has a range of at least 5 feet
and doesn’t have a range of Self, increase its
range by a number of feet equal to 30 times
your Wizard level.
Ritual. If the spell lacks the Ritual tag and has a
casting time of at least 10 minutes, give it the
Ritual tag.
Targets. If the spell affects one or more
creatures and doesn’t have a range of Self, it
now affects only your allies or enemies
(choose which when you cast Modify Spell).
The chosen alteration lasts until you cast Modify
Spell again or you finish a Long Rest. This altered
version of the spell can’t be added to a spellbook
or Spell Scroll without first casting Create Spell.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell
using a Spell Slot of 5th level or higher, you can
choose an additional spell modification for each
slot level above 4th.

Some of these things are removing a nearly vestigial element & mimicking some sorcerer level two metamagic options. The cost isn't high though so it's just a perfunctory "and I modify my spells" before moving on simply because there is an almost petty last until you finish a long rest footnote on a spell with no cost to begin with. If not for the range mod it's hard to justify a level 7/4th level slot

Spoiler: create spell

CREATE SPELL
5th-Level Transmutation Spell (Wizard)
Casting Time: Reaction, in response to yourself
casting Modify Spell
Range: Self
Component: V, S, M (an Arcane Focus, which the
spell consumes, worth at least 1,000 GP per
level of the spell altered by Modify Spell)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
Synthesizing your arcane knowledge and power,
you strive to create a new spell. To succeed, you
must concentrate for 1 hour and meditate on the
spell you just altered with Modify Spell,
otherwise this spell fails. If you succeed, you
must start casting Scribe Spell within the next 10
minutes and add the altered spell to your
spellbook. Once the spell is in your spellbook, it
becomes one of your known spells, it gains the
Wizard source tag rather than the Arcane tag,
and it gains a name of your choice.

Spoiler: ...

I feel like Scribe spell needs to be detailed first to avoid giving anyone the wrong impression

Spoiler: Scribe spell

SCRIBE SPELL
1st-Level Transmutation Spell (Ritual; Wizard)
Casting Time: 2 hours per level of the scribed
spell
Range: Self
Component: V, S, M (a quill, a book, and 50 GP of
fine inks per level of the scribed spell; this
spell consumes the inks)
Duration: Instantaneous
Channeling magic through quill and ink, you
scribe an Arcane spell in your spellbook or a
blank book worth at least 50 GP. The scribed
spell must be of a level for which you have Spell
Slots, and the book must lack the spell.
As you magically scribe the spell, you must
copy it from another spellbook or a Spell Scroll,
or you must have it prepared. If you copy it from
a Spell Scroll, the scroll is destroyed. If you have
the spell prepared, the casting time and
component costs are halved.
When the scribing is complete, the spell
becomes one of your known spells in the book,
appearing on its own page if the book was out of
pages. The spell appears in a cipher that is
understandable only to you or someone casting
Identify or Scribe Spell, and if the book was blank
before the scribing, that book is now your
spellbook.

So... you ritually cast a perfunctory "and I do it" spell every long rest from level seven onto modify a spell with what is mostly just some metamagic options the sorcerer has had since level two... then from level 9+ when you get some downtime can scribe it to your spellbook soon... by spending a thousand GP per level of the spell... Then just out of sheer hopjumping you spend another 50gp & 2hr per level of the spell you are modifying to cast the same scribe spell spell you use to scribe a spell from a scroll or found spellbook to your spellbook.

When it's all said & done you have one spell automatically altered to add what is mostly just a metamagic effect or silly range even before you say "and I modify my spells" and are broke AF because you spend half a platemail modifying a level one spell & even more on higher level spells but can't modify that spell further.



There's definitely a WiP component or something is off somewhere in the chain