The Next Most Unrealistic Power

[Verdande]

Personally I have no problem with 4e's "martial goes beyong the impossible".

I never once though that a high level fighter in D&D was supposed to be modelling Conan or Aragorn.

I always assumed it was intended to model Gilgamesh and Heracles.

To put it anime terms....

The male protoganist from Samurai Chaploo - mid to high end Heroic tier
The titular character from Jubei-chan: Ninja Girl - mid to high end Paragon
Vizards, Captains and Espadas from Bleach - mid to high end Epic tier.

Conan AT BEST is a level 5 character in AD&D terms IMO.

D&D at high levels has always gone past the impossible. That's not the point.

The point is that, for many people, it goes too far. In AD&D a high level fighter was just impossibly tough and excellent at attacking. He also had a stronghold and a couple of magical items he pilfered from.

In 4th edition, starting at a fairly low level, everybody and everything oozes magic. The fighter can move things with his mind and leap across rooms and other feats of silliness. It's the reason that a lot of people think it's too anime, which is why we get to discuss what the first and/or second most unrealistic powers are.

There should be a stopping point where characters don't really get any more powerful. In older editions, it was around Name level. In newer ones, it's level infinity, since you always get more and more health and more and more magic and more and more powers ad nauseum.

 

[circadianwolf]

Eh. The martial debate just leads back to "fighters should suck (at high levels, and conversely wizards should suck at low levels)", which is, from the perspective of *actually playing a game*, stupid. The guy playing the fighter doesn't care if it's more "realistic" that he sucks at higher levels because *he's not having fun* when everybody else is. You might as well make two separate games, one for low levels where everyone plays martial characters, and one for high levels where everyone plays (more traditional) magical characters, and not even try to create a smooth process between them, because otherwise someone's going to get left out.

Mage hand.

There's just no way anyone would ever bother to adventure if he could just use magic to get beer from the fridge without getting up.

Thus, the entire premise of the game (PCs go on adventures) is unrealistic.

Have you seen A Lost Hope? It features a scene about 50 seconds in of Anakin doing something similarly hilarious.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Mage hand.

There's just no way anyone would ever bother to adventure if he could just use magic to get beer from the fridge without getting up.

Thus, the entire premise of the game (PCs go on adventures) is unrealistic.

If that is the extent of your ambition, true, you are not an adventurer.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The martial debate just leads back to "fighters should suck"

No, it doesn't.

A lot of people who think that the fighter powers go beyond the limit of credulity would also be a fan of wizards who had to use a friggin' crossbow every once in a while.

And even if they're not, the implication that some powers break the willing suspension of disbelief isn't an implication that fighters should suck. It's more of an implication about genre. If Aaragorn can magically pull his enemies toward him, that breaks genre (for certain values of genre).

The "you just want fighters to suck!" bugaboo is one of the most frustrating strawmen in the edition wars, and I want it to impale itself on its sword so fast its entrails spin.

 

[circadianwolf]

Err, no, it leads to "fighters should stay at low power levels, while wizards are not so constrained".

If your ideal RPG characters are Aragorn and Gandalf, who seriously wants to play Aragorn?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Er, no, it leads to "fighters should stay at low power levels, while wizards are not so constrained".

Repeating your point doesn't provide any real evidence for it, just so y'know.

"Be vaguely believable in the context of a fantasy adventure" =/= "be weak cuz fighters should suck"

If your ideal RPG characters are Aragorn and Gandalf, who seriously wants to play Aragorn?

The dude who wants to be a badass with swords instead of a badass with magic.

And the dude who wants to be a badass with the power of friendship should be Samwise.

And, in a well-balanced, credibly designed game (as opposed to a story), they all have something to contribute to success in every challenge without breaking out of their archetype.

"I'm sorry, I can't use my powerful attack right now, because I have to wait five minutes in between my powerful attacks" breaks the archetype of "guy who does things under his own muscle," which is the genre that the D&D fighter rather explicitly exists in.

This isn't about keepin' the fighter down.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If your ideal RPG characters are Aragorn and Gandalf, who seriously wants to play Aragorn?

Chalk me up as one who would play Gandalf. Or Aragorn...and all the various Aradalfs, Gandagorns, Aragans and Gandaras in between. As gnomes, too.

Also, chalk me up as someone agreeing with KM on this one...and who can't give him XP at this time. (Sorry, KM!)

 

[El Mahdi]

A fighter power where all the monsters in a three square radius move (or are pulled) towards the fighter and he attacks them. Very cinematic, not so realistic however cool it looks. And not overtly magical either.

So it's the multi-target version of Scorpions "Get Over Here!"?

 

[olshanski]

My vote for the next most unrealistic power after "Come and get it" has to be "You want to put that WHERE?"

 

[fuzzlewump]

Aw, tired old arguments from tired old edition wars. This thread was funny on page one, too. At least bring up another specific fighter power or whatever that is as "genre breaking" as come and get it or comes close