The (Non-)Playtest Experience, or How the Hit Die Mechanic was a Non-Starter

[Deadboy]

About half the gamer population agrees with you. It is a reasonable position. But about half strongly disagrees and finds one day healing seriously disruptive to their experience of the game. Both sides sides have good arguments, neither side will convince the other. They are going to have to arrive at a workable solution. IMO HD and one day heals as default core is not a workable solution. I can houserule it out and play just fine. But I think they will lose a lot of people if they leave this stuff in the core.

But again, why? Isn't the point entirely moot, as I mentioned? I've been playing D&D since 1986 and I have NEVER, in any game with long natural healing times, had my character naturally heal. When I was young we just entirely ignored the rules and as I got older, we always had magical healing, either from a party member or from a local temple.

So what difference does it make whether you like HP and healing one way or another, especially to entirely reject the game over. Who actually uses that rule? Is it just the comfort of knowing its there? If that's so, WotC can go right ahead and set the healing at the "grittiest" (and I say that in quotes because I still reject how gritty it actually is, it's just a longer period of time) and I'll still happily ignore that rule and have my characters ready to go the next day. Thanks Mr. Cleric.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

How did the OP even become friends with someone like this?

D&D is a social game, it wouldn't matter what the system was, playing with a guy like this wouldn't be good under any circumstances.

Why would a group of people even let a single chump dictate their activities to them? Does he have to get their permission to see a movie? Go to a resturant?

If anyone gave me "If this is how the game works, it's a waste of time to even play it. Let's do something else." my answer would be "Sure, see you later, hope you don't need a ride home cuz you'll be waiting outside for 3 or 4 hours while we do this thing."

In no way does this indicate a problem with 5e, or the playtest. It only indicates an issue with the maturity of a single player.

Forcing him to play something he obviously doesn't like makes you no less of a jerk than you are ascribing him. Now, if everyone else wanted to play and he railed at them and ruined their game, I'd agree he's a jerk, but simply saying, he'd prefer to play something else does not make him a jerk. The common sense thing is to state his preference, and if others agree, play something else, if not, then go home. I wouldn't play in a game with 5e's moronic healing, either, but I wouldn't force my style on the whole group. I guess I'm a jerk, though.

 

[n00bdragon]

About half the gamer population agrees with you. It is a reasonable position. But about half strongly disagrees and finds one day healing seriously disruptive to their experience of the game. Both sides sides have good arguments, neither side will convince the other. They are going to have to arrive at a workable solution. IMO HD and one day heals as default core is not a workable solution. I can houserule it out and play just fine. But I think they will lose a lot of people if they leave this stuff in the core.

As much as I disagree with you on how legitimate the "unrealistic" complaint is I'm inclined to agree that neither side will convince the other. This "abortions for some miniature American flags for others" stance by WotC needs to end though. They should just come out and state what their goals are on this, draw a line in the sand and say "We're doing it this way. This is how the game is meant to be played. If you don't like it the door is over there." Trying to please everyone just ends up making everyone unhappy and wishing they were playing their favorite edition instead.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Except that ISN'T WHAT HP DAMAGE HAS EVER REPRESENTED PER THE DESIGNERS OF EVERY EDITION. Go back and re-read the 1E PHB. Don't AD/HD it, read the WHOLE section and comprehend it. This isn't about "horrible wounds", that's not only a strawman but utterly ignorant of what the game books actually say about it.


Again, this is utterly a gross misrepresentation of the way it actually works. You're less likely to go for a 15-minute adventuring day because one tough fight doesn't leave you with nothing left in the tank. Also, even mediocre-designed encounters can challenge a party's resources leaving them in daner of death even with most of their surges left.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT! Read the friggin' books again.


So you take a partial excerpt from a blogger and twist it. That's not a credible take. Read the books again. Heck, read the blog again:
The Alexandrian Blog Archive Explaining Hit Points

And read the responses. The line you quote doesn't match the rest of the essay even.

I've read the friggin' books. I was probably reading them before you were born. Pre 4e hit point damage was damage, period. 4e and beyond, damage is mostly emotional. It needs to change. It was this way for 30 years, and worked fine. This new revisionist interpretation has to go or it's going to piss off a lot of would-be customers. But then, we have always been at war with Eastasia..

 

[rounser]

You might want to rethink that whole "4e changed everything" schtick you've got going here. Basic D&D certainly doesn't agree with you originally.

Of course 4E attempted to redefine this aspect of the game, and was duly declared "not D&D" by a large segment of D&D's former audience.

Shout healing? 4E.
Schrodinger's damage? 4E.
"Healing surges"? 4E.
1 HP balloon animal monsters called "minions"? 4E.

And given that I cited the Rules Cyclopedia definition unthread from your post, you're hardly scoring points off of me by citing BECMI there. Fact is, 4E and now 5E muddy the HP waters in a way that does not match prior editions. If they're violating D&D assumptions and purporting to be D&D, then that's the designers' problem. I just see them walking again into the same trap as last time. And I understand that the 4E audience doesn't care about these details - they accepted 4E, after all.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Yeah because quivers of CLW wands and gallon jugs of healing potions is so much more believable.

And I guarantee if the DM does not allow the above the players would complain and walk away as a non-starter like the player in the OP's post.

There are no healing wands in my game, and healing potions are rare, yet 8 people show up every week. Imagine that!

 

[MacMathan]

One point that might make it more palatable for your group is that the overnight healing mechanic has not IMO influenced the design of the play test module.

Some posters have expressed concern for the assumptions to the game that are forced upon adventures but I think the Caves works when played either way.

 

[Bedrockgames]

But again, why? Isn't the point entirely moot, as I mentioned? I've been playing D&D since 1986 and I have NEVER, in any game with long natural healing times, had my character naturally heal. When I was young we just entirely ignored the rules and as I got older, we always had magical healing, either from a party member or from a local temple.

So what difference does it make whether you like HP and healing one way or another, especially to entirely reject the game over. Who actually uses that rule? Is it just the comfort of knowing its there? If that's so, WotC can go right ahead and set the healing at the "grittiest" (and I say that in quotes because I still reject how gritty it actually is, it's just a longer period of time) and I'll still happily ignore that rule and have my characters ready to go the next day. Thanks Mr. Cleric.

It isn't moot. We have had this discussion on other threads so no point going over it all over again. But healers die, get incapacitated,some groups dont have clerics, sometimes cleric magic isn't enough for everyone, etc. It comes up enough to bother people. If people on the other side of the debate cant fathom the "why" it doesn't really matters. What matters is enough people are bothered by it to impact sales.

 

[FireLance]

Remind me again. Why do we, as a community, tend to cite teamwork and consensus building as some of the social benefits of playing RPGs?

 

[Argyle King]

Obviously, part of the problem is the attitude of your buddy - but, he runs GURPS, so you knew what you were getting into when you invited him to a D&D playtest.
.

Being that I'm someone who also runs GURPS and avidly plays that system, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say with this comment.

I have gone through the D&D playtest several times. Some things I liked; some things I didn't.