D&D 5E The other side of dump stats (Altered ability mod progression)

[Don Durito]

I've seen a lot of talking about how to avoid dump stats.
The two biggest dump stats in 5E seem to be Strength and Intelligence. It seems players mostly either need these to be high or they don't feel they're worth investing in.
I've seen suggestions for how to make these abilities generally more useful and some of them are good ones but it seems like only half of the picture
Generally players dump some abilities in order to max others - because the benefit of maxing abilities is so strong (and because as a general principle of role-playing games strengthening your niche is generally more rewarding than spreading yourself around.)
So it seems to me if we want to reward players for investing in off stats, or at least make it more reliable - than abilities need to offer diminishing returns as they grow higher (In theory the point buy system does this - but as it doesn't interface with racial mods or ASIs it doesn't really work).

One way to do this would be to change the ability score modifiers. Like so:

Ability	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20
Modifier	+1	+2	+2	+3	+3	+3	+4	+4	+4	+5

This loses the easy to remember progression currently, but makes it much more rewarding to spread abilities around. If you want to play a smart Fighter, a 14 is not so much as a crippling invesment as a 16. Likewise if you need a secondary ability such as a Paladin with Charisma, than a 14 may be enough, reducing the pressure to dump Intelligence. Similiarly a Dex fighter may feel it worthwhile to keep Strength up to be good at Athletics and a Strength Bard is now a much better option. A lot of fun but difficult multiclass options such as Barbarian/Monk become less difficult.

This makes it a lot easier for players to shore up their bad saves. It would also broadly make PCs stronger - but around the lower end rather than at the higher end - the biggest boost would be to bad saves (and that would still be small)
Of course this would make PCs a lot more similiar as they would tend to converge more around the middle - but then that's the downside of removing dump stats I guess.
Skills choices would likely be less constrained by class.

I'm not sure I'd actually do this - this is more by way of thought experiment to see what it would look like.

Thoughts?

 

[commandercrud]

Discourage STR being a dump stat by enforcing the variant encumbrance rule. Discourage INT being a dump stat by calling for more of the INT skill rolls.

 

[Don Durito]

Discourage STR being a dump stat by enforcing the variant encumbrance rule. Discourage INT being a dump stat by calling for more of the INT skill rolls.

Please read the OP

The whole point is that improving Str and Int is only half of the solution.
Surely that was obvious?

 

[commandercrud]

My point was is that you don't need rule changes to solve the problem.

 

[Don Durito]

My point was is that you don't need rule changes to solve the problem.

Ok whatever. Noted. Hopefully now that it's been said noone else will feel the need and the actual premise can be addressed.

 

[Horwath]

nice idea.

add that score of 8 is -2 modifier so you also see less dumping to number 8.

also weapons not having finesse trait should get one damage die upgrade.

Longsword 1d8(1d10 versatile)->1d10(1d12 versatile)
Greatsword/axe 2d6/1d12->2d8

finesse and versatile cannot have equal value on weapons as versatile is ignored 99% of the time.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Ok whatever. Noted. Hopefully now that it's been said noone else will feel the need and the actual premise can be addressed.

Frustrating, isn't it. I agree it is pretty pointless to say "Hey, your problem isn't an issue for me, just wanted to let you know..."

Anyway, I think your idea has merit and I get what you mean. It is almost an inverse of the older ways where 13-15 was +1, 16-17 was +2, and 18 was +3. I think inverting it makes more sense when you consider the law of diminishing returns. It takes a lot more effort to improve when you are already good at something.

Reversing it to the lower scores as @Horwath suggests would be good too as that further discourages leaving an 8 for point-buys.

EDIT: I would begin the progression at 12 so 11 is not a bonus, but that is just me.

 

[Horwath]

hmm,

standard human point buy with this rule would be wicked:
5 scores of 14 for +3 bonus and 1 score of 11 for +1 bonus

I guess that 11 would still end up in STR or INT

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well, depending on your build, any score except CON can typically be your dump stat. I sometimes have a 9 here or there, but never an 8. DEX is another score that is normally a 10. It hurts too much IMO to have even a DEX 9.

I would say 90% of my characters have 10's or better everywhere. I don't often "dump" at all but do on occasion.

 

[DEFCON 1]

It's not going to solve the problem.

If players want to play "smart" characters from a roleplay perspective... they will do it in one of two ways: they will invest points to raise their INT score so that their mechanics match the fiction, or they will just roleplay their characters intelligently regardless of their INT score because the DM doesn't stop them from doing so or challenge them mechanically.

If players are allowed by the DM to play intelligently even if their characters aren't, then they have no reason to buy their INT score no matter how cheap you make it. So your changes will not solve anything. All you are doing is making it cheaper for the player who ordinarily would raise their INT score to match their character's fiction, thus giving them more points to spend in addition on the other stats they would be maxing out anyway. So the INT they would have bought high is still high, and now more of the other stats they would have bought high can be even higher.