The perils of winter

Zustiur

Explorer
I got carried away with the game description there, and didn't comment on everything I wanted to comment on.

I'll hold onto ice storms as a future weapon. A blizzard should be scary enough for now.
By my estimation of how winds work, they're either safe from the wind-near-water issue, or really badly affected by it. Depends on which of their two home-villages they travel to.

Thin ice won't be an issue for getting home. Their homes are on this side of the river. Might be useful for post-blizzard hijinks though.

Gilladian said:
Having to stand at the heads of the horses and clear the frost/ice from their nostrils so they wouldn't suffocate from their own breath... the snow being SO blinding that you didn't know you were 5' from a building, and could walk right by it and die of exposure; there were reasons they strung ropes across the 10' space between house and barn!
I think for the sake of the game, I'll ignore the breathing issue. Also, they don't have horses. Not being able to see more than 5' could be a useful element to highlight though. I'll look for a way to work that in. Could be a chance to work in some backstory for the unrecognized sorcerer (i.e. she doesn't realize she's got the sorcerous bloodline yet).

Blackbrrd said:
On the western side of the mountains you can get huge amounts of snow. There is a summer ski resort that opens in may, and the first thing they do is to dig out their ski lift which you sit in. Usually the towers for these are 5-10m high.
Wow is all I can really say to that.

Blackbrrd said:
Basically, you can do whatever you want with the storm, and nature will have done much worse than you can imagine somewhere in Norway.
This is very reassuring. Thank you.

Janx said:
The badder times are really when it gets below 0F and the wind comes up. This can drive snow, which is usually more crystaline, than the usual fluffy flakes of a blizzard. Thus, it stings the eyes, and it's freaking cold. That's when winter is dangerous.
Ah, good point. It is around, or possibly below 0F, and its going to be very windy. If they even think about going outside during the blizzard I'll throw damage at them. 1hp per round aught to do it.

Nellisir said:
Movement is pretty much going to stop once the snow hits 3'. If they make two miles a day in 3' of snow, that's excellent. That's without snowshoes.
HAH, that's the amount that it should reach once they've reached home. I couldn't have planned that better if I'd known!!

Janx said:
I assume Mountains are trying to kill me, and anybody who doesn't asume the same is asking for trouble. As an adventurer, I wouldn't head up to a mountain pass without mountain survival gear and supplies to weather a blizzard.
Also noted for future use. I intend to give the party the option of travelling through a mountain pass, taking the low lands, or sailing in about 3 levels' time. Should be interesting.

Loonhook said:
Boiling water to snow in hurricane force winds
It's worth saying twice. WOW.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Janx

Hero
IAh, good point. It is around, or possibly below 0F, and its going to be very windy. If they even think about going outside during the blizzard I'll throw damage at them. 1hp per round aught to do it.

Well, that's a bit off from what I meant.

Blizzards are just big snow falls, in simple terms. Kind of like a really long rain storm. There's some wind, but the temperature is around freezing (32F) because that's what allows snow to fall.

I don't recall any blizzards when it was really freaking cold (sub-zero).

As far as damage, the cold would be more like 1 HP per hour if you didn't have proper clothing or shelter.

The blizzard ain't gonna kill you any more than standing around in 31F weather looking for a christmas tree will kill you. The blizzard hurts movement and visibility. Which is bad when you're travelling, but not when you are hunkered down. But if I got my winter coat on, I'm just fine playing in the snow in the backyard during a blizzard.

Blizzards usually happen between October-December in MN, by my recollection. January-February, is when it gets bloody cold, -20F is the standard. That's when the world sits still. Ain't nothing moving, and the land is covered in crusty/icey snow. if a wind does come up, that's where you get wind chill effects, that lower the effective temperature. Thus, a really cold -40 day with a wind, can make it feel like -80.

I have, on the coldest day of the year, with classes canceled because of it, walked to the pharmacy for my then fiance. I suffered no ill effects. I wore 2 pairs of socks, sweat pants under jeans, tennis shoes, a sweatshirt, winter gloves, hat, scarf and winter coat. It was about 2 miles round trip.

I'd want winter boots to round out the outfit if I was an "adventurer", but it was sufficient for daily college life and travel between buildings. The act of walking was enough to prevent frost bite (providing I had the extra layers I wore).

Ice storms are really rare in my experience. I only recall 2 in my lifetime. This is basically, a rainstorm in the winter. Which means the rain falls as rain, and freezes as it lands. This coats everything in ice.

In cities, this is a actually more dangerous, as roads and sidewalks are inherently smooth surfaced. This means cars slip and slide, and people fall down on their arse every 3 steps. I know this because I walked 6 blocks to campus after such a storm, and my tail bone hurt.

On rougher ground, it ain't so bad, because the ice forms a rough surface over the natural rough surface of grass and gravel. Walking on such is much easier.

Obviously, you wouldn't want ot be out in it, because, unlike a blizzard where you can keep the snow on the outside, it's rain, that will soak into you clothes and tent and other less sound structures before freezing.

Ice storms are likely rare because it requires a warm enough upper rain cloud region in an area that also has a lower cold region. The North is generally cold above and below, so rain doesn't happen.

I shoudl note, the 2nd ice storm was in Houston, where such a combination is more feasible.

To reiterate, I have generally never seen snow do damage. It's the cold, particularly on a stationary or unprotected human. Obviously, water/freezing rain would cause a protected human to be unprotected, thus, they'd take damage.

But it's always the cold that is doing the damage.

So look at as:
guy with winter clothes = OK
guy with non-winter clothes = gonna take cold damage per hour (you ain't gonna get frostbit racing from the house to the barn in your pajamas)
guy with wet winter clothes = as if he didn't have those winter clothes.

So, to keep it abstract, figure it this way for a guy in summer clothes:
human suffers cold damage from 50F or lower. The colder it is, the more damage he should take. The more active he is, it will neutralize the cold damage because he is raising his body heat.

This is why I can chop would in a sweat shirt in -20F weather and suffer no ill effect (though i will be wearing boots and gloves for my extremities, my core body temp is really hot)

So, a dude just sitting around in his summer clothes (sleeping, because he's drunk/lost, etc), should take 1HP damage per 10 degrees below 60F per hour. Just do (60 - Current Temp)/10. If it's positive, that's how many HP to deduct per hour as the body loses heat.

Having the right clothing, or being active will neutralize that, though clothing should help more than activity. You gotta be hustling your arse in -20F weather, namely chopping wood quickly. And once you stop, 10 minutes later, you need to be buttoning up, or the cold effect will resume.

That's my guesstimate of rules, based on actually living in northern Minnesota and doing things in it without ever suffering damage.
 

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
I do not know if this was mentioned, but Snowocolypse January 2011[?]. it snowed about 2 feet in 24 hours. the middle of the day required headlights. it took 3 days to dig out my back porch.

winter '89-90 [or was it 90-91. not sure]:
temps dropped to -28 F. wit -80 wind chills; an unprecedented event. every thing was so cold for so long that a rain shower in February caused a massive Ice storm as any rain that fell froze instantly. What a mess. I worked for the cable company then.
 

Evilhalfling

Adventurer
Well in my last big winter game, the snow wasn't a problem (unless their Phantom steeds got killed)
the temperature was compensated by heavy clothing and or magic. Light was a huge issue, the party went far enough north so that the latitude was similar to middle/northern Canada. 4-5 hours of daylight per day at full speed, then it becomes how fast do you want your magic steed to go, when your light only goes about 30'? there was a lot of camping, in dug out snowbanks.

The Villians marched them into the ground using giants for pathbreaking and burning through sunrods like crazy. They had a Winter Fey in a sled that help with supply issues.

100 yrs later people on stilts, and a sled pulled by a (usually fake) owlbear has become a widespread tradition. The "Winter King" hands out sunrods and candy to the gathered crowds.
 
Last edited:

Zustiur

Explorer
Well, that's a bit off from what I meant.

Blizzards are just big snow falls, in simple terms. Kind of like a really long rain storm. There's some wind, but the temperature is around freezing (32F) because that's what allows snow to fall.

I don't recall any blizzards when it was really freaking cold (sub-zero).

Now that's interesting... When I did research prior to beginning this thread, I got consistent results stating that a blizzard was more about the wind than about the snow-fall. According to what I read, blizzards happen when the winds whip up the snow that is already on the ground.
Exact temperature isn't really relevant to the game, so I'll just fudge it being 'roughly 0C or 32F'. No big deal. Thanks for the correction though. I guess this is where the 'too cold to snow' myth comes from.



My current plan is to mix this with an 'obsidian skill challenge', or a twisted variation of such.
Instead of challenge segments, there will be days. The number of successes per day will determine how quickly the party travels. They may make it home in 2, 3 or 4 days, depending upon their rolls.
Also, this is pathfinder, not 4e, so I'm having to guesstimate the numbers. Currently it looks like this:
Target DC 16
Primary skills: Survival, Acrobatics, Heal, Knowledge Local, Knowledge Nature, Perception.
Secondary skills: Any, including 'constitution checks'
I would have put Endurance as a primary skill, but Pathfinder doesn't have that skill).

Then it's a case of 6 characters = 10 successes for a victory, 8-9 for a partial victory, or <8 for a failure. With 2 days, 3 days and 4 days being the victory/partial/failure conditions.
As I'll need to give a running commentary on their movements, I'm thinking it'll be like this:
Total distance: 20 miles (i.e. between the 16 and 24 miles/day you get for 20 ft and 30 ft movement respectively)
Day 1: 7" snow fall; 14 mi / 8 mi / 4 mi
Day 2: 12" snow fall; 6 mi / 4 mi / 3 mi
Day 3: 3" snow fall; 6 mi / 4 mi / 3 mi
Day 4: Beginning of blizzard; 4 mi / 4 mi / 3 mi

Those numbers don't work yet. Drat. I want 4 failures to still add up to 20 miles, so I'll continue tweaking these numbers.
Once that's sorted, I just have to work out how many successes per day are required to meet the distances recorded above.

I suppose I could simplify it by removing the day/snowfall variation on travel distance. Each success = 2 miles traveled. They can potentially get 6 successes per day... 6 failures would mean not moving though. Hmmm.

Another iteration: 5 miles per day + 1 mile per successful check. I could then alter the DC by day...

Thoughts?
 

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
Another iteration: 5 miles per day + 1 mile per successful check. I could then alter the DC by day...

Thoughts?
perhaps: dc 16 = success = 5 miles +1 / number over success
failure = +1 to dc / number of failure for next check and movement = 5 miles - 1 per number of failure
best case of failures = 5 days of travel, maybe more. reason: party keeps finding snowdrifts to dig through.
 

Janx

Hero
Just to follow up on this:

wikipedia seems to confirm your definition of high wind and low temperatures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard

But the reality I lived in was snowstorm and blizzard were used interchangeably.

Additionally, as that very page lists the Halloween of '91 blizzard, i was personally walking around in it trick-or-treating in a rather thin robin-hood costume. While it was freezing ( around 32F enabling snow to form and not melt on landing), and there probably was some wind, it's key attribute was snowfall because prior to that storm, there wasn't any snow on the ground to blow around.

Me and my friends had a good haul of candy, which we ate while we were snowed in that weekend (because the storm brought in quite a bit of snow that ultimately closed the roads).

This feat demonstrates:
a) if it's around freezing and you're wearing a thin fake medieval shirt and sweat pants while running around to various houses, you won't get frostbit
b) you won't get lost while running around the village during the storm. We hit darn near every house and bar, including the one across the highway
c) the snow wasn't at it's deepest yet as the storm had basically started sometime after school got done.

For traveling through deep snow, consider the basic rate of 4 miles/hour. Subtract 1 mile/hour per foot of non-packed snow. (non-packed meaning, doesn't have a crust that will hold your weight, which enables a different game we'd play as arctic explorers as a kid).

Snow drifts tend to form most dramatically agains the sides of things (usually a 1 foot gap between the structure and the drift). So, walking across a field, will tend to find mostly even snow, possibly deep spots filled in (thus, a leveled field). I don't recall too many sand-dune-like drifts out in the fields. Not saying small ones wouldn't form, but the large stuff was always against buildings. The problem being if it formed on the side with the door.

Drifts tend to form one one side. A whole building doesn't tend to get covered on all sides. This is due to the wind action. I can't recall what side it forms relative to the wind direction, but it's going to be on the side the wind's from, or the side it's going.

I ain't had to deal with snow in a few years, this is all from my recollection of living in one of the coldest states in america and the stuff I personally saw and did.
 


Hand of Evil

Hero
Epic
Pit Traps - snow covers up a lot of stuff and under all that snow you can have melting, this creates hollow areas that will collapes when weight is added. While in most case this is not a big deal, sometimes it is, quick drop of three or four feet can break a leg.
 

Zustiur

Explorer
But the reality I lived in was snowstorm and blizzard were used interchangeably.

I'm getting the impression that this is very much like 'the flu' vs 'influenza'. One is an irritating cold which lasts a few days, the other has the potential to kill you, or at least debilitate you for 2 weeks.
I'll stick with the high winds definition, which I understand to be the 'correct' use of the word, if not the 'common' use of the word.

My game is on this Friday, so I'm running out of time to prepare. Taking the advice in to account, I've decided to shorten the 'in-game' part of the blizzard somewhat. Clearly they're no where near as dangerous as I'd understood them to be, so I will just narrate a few days worth of snow related issues and move on. The journey home through snow is more important for the time being as that presents a more tangible challenge.
 

Remove ads

Top