The Problem I Find Myself In (Long, Sorry)

[Andrew D. Gable]

I want to preface this post with a statement of intent - it is not my intent to start any sort of edition war or argument about which system is better. In fact, the only real reason I'm mentioning edition numbers is for ease of reference.

I also need to mention that I'd like to resolve this situation with not causing anyone to get any more pissed than necessary. That said, I'm beginning to draw a blank as to how to resolve it WITHOUT pissing anyone off.

We're currently playing 4e. Well, not really as we won't really get together again until November at the earliest. A few weeks ago, I realized just how much stuff from 3e I have. I also realized I'm converting a lot of stuff from 3e to 4e, which as DMs here know isn't really very easy at all. I had the idea to cut out the conversion time - if 3e was more to my liking than 4e, which it is, why not just stick with 3e? After all, back when 4e came out I told the players that we'd try it. Not that I'd necessarily be sticking with it. I had always been saying that I very well may want to switch back to 3e after I had some experience with the system, because honestly I wasn't too fond of it from the get-go. But I was willing to give it a shot.

But I'm now wondering whether the expectation was always that I would want to stick with 4e and never look back.

Of the five in my group - myself and four players;

1. I, of course, want to do 3rd.

2. My wife wants to go back to 3rd, I always did feel bad that we had just gotten her used to that ruleset and then abruptly changed to 4e and she has to get used to a whole new ruleset.

3. The guy who's playing the bard right now really doesn't have any preference on system. He seems to be focused towards the story end of things rather than the mechanics.

4. One player, I think, really has no opinion on the matter. Seems more "playing DnD for something to do" than gamer geek. Also the SO of #5.

5. The last? Doesn't seem to want to budge off 4e. Seemed genuinely shocked that I didn't like it. Some of the comments gave me the impression that - although they were worded nicely - as I understood it, they were almost criticisms on the way I DM, basically seemed to be saying if I ran the game a different way (the player's way) it wouldn't go so bad. Didn't particularly (IMHO) even seem too keen when I mentioned a compromise system, something like maybe working DnD into the SW Saga ruleset which is a good middle ground between 3 and 4, to me.

Fact is, I just don't understand why this would be - we've only been playing 4e for a matter of months, not long enough IMHO to get this die-hard devoted to a system - in contrast, we were playing 3e for pretty much the entire run. So 7 or 8 years at minimum. I'd think that all the players, as well as myself of course, are much more familiar with 3e and I, for one, would rather do one I'm familiar with.

This might be a poor attitude on my part but I'm of the mind that as Player #2 and #3 are the only other ones who actually OWN any 4e materials, well, I halfway want to say they're the only ones whose opinions I even should pay attention to.

Also keep in mind that I think the fact that I'm not very tactically-minded I think accounts for my distaste in part. It's the same reason I'm not very good at Magic, which honestly seems to have been a very great influence on 4e.

 

[Raven Crowking]

1. Play what you want to play; life is too short for games you are not enjoying.

2. Choice between making the wife happy and Player #5? No choice at all.

3. As long as a GM can draw happy players to the table, he or she can run anything her or she likes, in any way he or she likes.

4. Player #5 can always DM his game of choice, and you can indicate that you are fully willing to play if he wishes to do so.

 

[billd91]

I think it's time to have a meeting with the whole group. Perhaps the next time you meet, tell them to bring movies and you'll discuss the campaign a bit as it is now and what people want out of it in the future while watching movies and munching popcorn.

And be sure to let them know about your concerns from the DM's perspective. Don't let yourself be swayed that you're somehow prejudicing the results by expressing your preferences. DMs invest a lot of time in the game. They should have a larger influence in the specific mechanics of the game to be played than any single other player. It's simply no good having a DM invest a lot of time and effort in a game they don't prefer. The game will suffer.

 

[jamorea]

You're the DM/GM. Play with the ruleset you feel the most comfortable with.

Would you be rebooting the 4E campaing to 3E or shelving the 4E campaign to start a new 3E campaign? I'm just asking because #3 might care. My group usually shutters the campaign when we switch rules which I hate (I'm a story guy like #3).

Offer to let #5 DM a bit. It would give you a chance to play and might give him more of an appreciation for what it takes to be behind the screen.

 

[Cor_Malek]

Well as to #5 - I don't think it's necessarily strange that he became a die hard fan of a system in very short time - when it hits - it hits. System matches his expectations, and that's all there is to it.

A bit like with you - 3e is what resonates with you, so that's what IMO you should lean towards. It would be a problem if you didn't have anyone to play it with, but if 40% of the group prefers 3rd, and 40% doesn't care about mechanics - well then, 20% is a reasonable collateral, especially if it makes your wife happier.

More importantly, it's not like sticking with current system is doing wonders to the table atmosphere, now is it? I might be reading too much into it, but it seems that changing system might be a good occasion for #5 to graciously decline to play more with you, and find a group more tuned to his expectations - either as a GM or a player.

Ultimately, you are the DM. You have to tell the story, and you decide what tool fits best what you're trying to do. Why struggle with one you're not comfortable with?

And it's not like you have to burn your 4e books, either. When you feel like playing it, nothing is stopping you, right?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Now I'm going to start with an aside but I absolutely love 4e and did within running a couple of games,so I understand where that player is coming. That said, I have DMed where I was not enjoying myself and it was soul destroying and I did not DM for about 10 years after it.

So talk to everyone but make it clear that you are not having fun, offer to let the 4e fan run a game if the want and let the cards fall as they may.

 

[nedjer]

2. Choice between making the wife happy and Player #5? No choice at all.

Unless Player #5 is prepared to feed, wash and look after you when you're ill - the wife definitely wins

 

[TheYeti1775]

Play the one you want. Life's too short to worry about it.


I kind of run into the same thing in my group.
But I'm the 3.xE holdout.
Don't really have a desire to play 4E. Luckily my group understands that. But they also have several other game groups, whereas I only play in the one because of my time available.
I did try it for a month or two recently and it still didn't grab me really. So I understand how you feel on the issue. I too look over at that bookshelf I see all the pre-3E stuff and than I see all the 3.xE stuff sitting there as well.

Our group solved it by rotating GM's and games.

Right now we are playing Star Wars Saga, which strangely is more compelling to me than 4E was. I've actually entered those books on my Amazon Wish List, whereas the 4E stuff I haven't even looked up on there.

Number one, keep your wife happy.
Number two, talk with your group. State your position with a few reasons why.
If the last player can't meet some happy middle ground with the rest of you, I hate to say a new group might be best for him
But you could also find out what parts of 4E are so attractive to him/her; incorporate them backwards into your 3.5 game. The game is wide open for you to modify on your own.

 

[Festivus]

I have a similar problem in that the table I play with is Pathfinder, but I really disliked DMing 3.x and my turn is coming up to DM. Now, I know we want to run "Red Hand of Doom" as the story, and I worked up a conversion already for it to 4E, so there is no problem there, but the bulk of the group doesn't want to even try 4E. So without pissing anyone off, I could either:

a. Run it in Pathfinder (requiring another conversion) - Making the players happy and me miserable.
b. Run it in straight up 3.5 with no splat books - Making the players somewhat unhappy and myself somewhat unhappy.
c. Run it in 4E (or essentials even) - Making myself happy and the players unhappy.

I don't think there is a winning combo there, so perhaps the fourth option:

d. Don't DM anything, just play in a Pathfinder game - making everyone happy (except I am skipping out on DMing duties).

I think the best thing to do is get everyone together and discuss it.

 

[cildarith]

This is an age-old debate (at least among the people I game with), and has caused some friction in the past. Our eventual solution is simply this: The DM gets to choose the game system. Period.

If there is a game you want to try and you can't convince the regular DM to run it (or he tries it, but doesn't like it), you either run the game yourself, or you drop it. Once that understanding was reached, there has been a lot less conflict in our group about what games we are going to play.

A DM running a game he doesn't like is rarely fun for anyone.