The problem of keeping magic items scarce...

[transcendation]

That's a lot to digest. Well, here' goes...

Interesting. Very interesting.

Lots of ideas. Thank you.

It's not that the PCs are a threat to any government at this point - they aren't. Also, they're good, so they aren't inclined to attempt a coup of their own King, even though he's Lawful Evil (a the-end-justifies-the-means-type - think of the King in "Dragonslayer" and his deal with the dragon). The Captain of the Guard weilds an artifact in defense of the King, which the PCs acquired for their leige, and the PCs don't want it, because they know it has bad side-effects. The PCs also know that these guys love their country and will do whatever it takes to defend it, and their people. The lottery was seen by everyone as a necessary evil, except the party, who joined the adventure to slay the dragon and end the Lottery.

So that's not the problem.

The PCs simply accumulate items slowly over time so that random encounters become meaningless wastes of time. They've also learned the lesson of strength in numbers, and don't go gallavanting off on their own. They stick together.

I've resorted to chucking random encounters altogether, and go with entirely customized encounters now, to maximize role-play and slippery tactics.

Oops, out of time. More later...

transcendation

 

[Zzyzx]

Be more creative in life-limited items.

"The knot of thistledown around the half-elf's finger is magical! It radiates Abjuration and Enchantment, and... Spellcraft check?" *dice rolling* "Ooo, nice roll! It appears to have been kissed by a Dryad, creating a Ring of Protection +2 which also grants a +2 bonus on Bluff and Sense Motive checks. You suspect that if you remove the thistle ring carefully, it may retain its potency for a full week!"

Other items could crumble over time, or could sprout, or could hatch.

Use and give out more items with charges, or single-use items like potions & scrolls.

Cheers, -- N

Drow in my campaign still have weapons and armor that are magical in the Underdark but lose their powers (and soon their substance) in sunlight).

Drow can still be exotic, if you work at it.

 

[transcendation]

...continued.

Another reason the PCs aren't a threat to the government is that they are friends with the Court Wizard, toward whom they played a part in convincing to become the King's Mage in the first place. And that guy is loyal to King and Country. So if the PCs betray the King, they have to fight their friend.

So no prob.

But they've slowly accumulated permanent magic over time, and I've been very careful not to place anything in the campaign that is too contrived for specifically targetting their magic. They have enemies who definitely target their stuff, but like I said, the PCs stick together. So far they've weathered every storm I've blown at them.

I've come to the conclusion that any encounter that has a single magic item in it is easy pickings, and therefore, have to make the encounter worthy in some other respect.

There are others who are decked, but they have also learned the lesson of strength in numbers, and stick together in groups. So gain is balanced with risk.

When two such groups clash, the following phenomenon occurs: the victorious side is surrounded by the equipment of their fallen opponents, as well as all the casualties from their own group. The survivors then, more than double their possessions. Then they go out and find a couple or more new NPCs, carefully custom deck them, and their group is more powerful than if they went on several adventures!

I ran an adventure in which the dungeon was just a maguffin, and the real adventure was the conflict between the task forces (adventuring groups) sent by several countries to find the dungeon and grab the goodies (including the aforementioned artifact).

As the players defeated the enemy task forces, new stronger ones were sent, until the adventure escalated with a confrontation with Iuz himself. The PCs didn't destroy Iuz, but with the aid of the artifact, they did manage to destroy his physical form, leaving his ghost trapped in the dungeon (based on the protections placed there by his mother, yes, you guessed it, the dungeon was Tsojcanth). A battle rages on there, in the PCs wake, between the forces of good and evil, where Iuz's minions are trying to transport a replacement body to their master, so that he can finally leave the place.

Meanwhile, the PCs have moved on to wreak havoc as their new decked-out selves.

So yes, it was my fault.

And my only option has been to involve them in core plot developments, and escalate the threats. Bigger bigwigs have noticed them and invited them to join a joint task force. Now they are rubbing shoulders with some big names (Robilar, Tenser, and some new ones I've built up the reputation of over time), to face a foe named The Pyromancer, who has attacked the world with an army of fire elementals and magmen, and who has caused 23 mountains to errupt into volcanoes. Let's see if we can't melt some of that cool new magic equipment of theirs.

The DM giveth, and the DM taketh away.

transcendation

__________________
I'm selling my large personal library of role-playing games (3000+ items). For the current list (1000+ items) and updates (I'm adding the rest as time allows), please email me at transcendation@yahoo.com

 

[Twinswords]

Why don`t you dust off plane scape and sent them towards the planes. That pyromancer dude seems to be the perfect ticket to the fire plane and from there you have a whole universe with new enemies and high level opponents with good gear collected on other worlds, magic can even be in abundance.

 

[transcendation]

planescape...

That's exactly what I've done.

The PCs have made their way to the City of Brass, to ask or negotiate with the Efreet for the location of the Land of Scorch, a demi-plane where the Pyromancer resides in his Obsidian Tower.

transcendation

 

[transcendation]

What other options do I have?

They're bound to get even more powerful.

And so far, custom encounters, and custom and customized adventures have worked well to keep them thinking on their toes.

I haven't used the taxation-approach much, because the group has managed to move into the aristocracies of neighboring lands, and have diplomatic immunity of sorts.

The PCs are elves and dwarves (half and half) - a strange adventuring group indeed. Rivalries between them almost started a racial war.

One of the dwarves is the prince of the neighboring Dwarven Lair - the son of the Laird. (pun intended)

And one of the elves has declared himself Regent of the forest from which he came, for the previous ruler of the wood disappeared within his abode. The PC isn't in a hurry to enter the place to find out what happened to his Lord (this really caught me off-guard - for this means I developed that dungeon for nothing!). Besides, the forest has been getting along well without a Lord for decades (he disappeared decades ago, which to elves, seems like yesterday).

The PCs then, are fairly reknowned. So any unfair treatment of them could have widespread repurcusions. And both factions of the party could raise an army without too much trouble.

So taxing them really isn't an option for the King of Bissel. Also, only recently have the PCs been without a dragon steed. And they still have their giant spider steed.

Who do you send to collect tax from monster riders?

It was one of the same dragons the King previously paid in horses and virgin maidens for protection of his country (better to hold the Lottery twice a year than having dragons burn the crops and villages). Paying, um, er, rewarding the PCs (and by extention their dragon) to carry the country's banner wasn't much different in his eyes. So he sends them on missions, offering a gallon or two each of healing potions, honorable membership in the Royal Wizard's Guild, and lodgings in his castle, for example. He's even knighted one of them.

And he's not afraid that they'll attempt a coup. None of them are actual subjects. The people of the land are humans. These elves and dwarves are definitely foreigners, and dignataries from the lands they come from. If they made a grab for power, the people would probably resist, certainly the nobles would, and the Kingdom's other allies would probably intervene as well. And the lands the PCs are from would probably object. Besides, they haven't asked for anything, nor are they causing waves with the Kingdom's knights. They simply hang around whenever they aren't attacking whoever is attacking the country.

Due to the PCs efforts, trade with the dwarven and elven lands has resumed, and is booming.

Well, there are a few more half-elven children running around town than usual, but so what...

Meanwhile, even though the PCs can't stand the sniveling King or his Captain, and even though some of them have landed in the King's dungeons on more than one occasion, the PCs love that they have carved out a place for themselves in this aristocracy. With their help, the land has elevated from a March to a Kingdom.

It's a strange symbiosis. But I like it this way - there are plenty of opportunities for intrigue.

So far, I've been able to sustain the illusion that the PCs are moving up through the levels of the campaign, rather than the campaign increasing in levels with the players. This requires exposing them to background via rumors and news reports (storytelling at the local pubs, and overheard arguments coming from the throne room or various ministry offices) and this is more work, but it keeps things rich (complex), providing the players with many directions to choose from.

Fortunately, they've opted to stay close to home most of the time, for fear that it can't survive without them.



transcendation@yahoo.com

P.S.: I'm selling my RPG collection of 3000+ items. Contact me for details.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Meanwhile, even though the PCs can't stand the sniveling King or his Captain, and even though some of them have landed in the King's dungeons on more than one occasion, the PCs love that they have carved out a place for themselves in this aristocracy. With their help, the land has elevated from a March to a Kingdom.

It's a strange symbiosis. But I like it this way - there are plenty of opportunities for intrigue.

So, what's the problem?

 

[transcendation]

the problem...

The problem is, that for me, it's like walking a tightrope.

Random encounters, which provide essential campaign and adventure filler, are no longer an option for me. The characters use those to harvest magic items. And because the PCs are so decked, no typical random encounter has a chance against them.

I usually keep a stack of premade custom encounters on hand for when things lull, or for when the PCs take off on a journey.

But I'm running out of ideas for custom encounters.

I didn't know how to articulate this before, but there you have it.

transcendation@yahoo.com

P.S.: I'm selling my RPG collection of 3000+ items. Contact me for details.

 

[Felnar]

(sorry if this had been mentioned, i only read the first 30ish posts)
you say the problem is any challenging NPC has to have magic items, which only add to the PCs power when they are defeated
but this doesnt have to be the case

beyond the previously stated excellent options of lootless monsters and consumable magic items, there's the option of overlapping magic items

if the party fighter has a +2 flaming greatsword, don't give the NPC a +3 flaming burst greatsword, give them a +3 flaming burst warhammer or a +3 shield of acid resistance.
your party already has +2 cloaks of resistance? give the NPC's +1 cloaks of resistance, or maybe a cloak of charisma (for a NPC paladin)

basically, don't make swapping out gear a no brainer

 

[Raven Crowking]

Also, make some encounters where killing things and taking their stuff isn't the best option. Make encounters where the party is dealing with a middle-man, and if they don't do something skill-based they miss out on opportunities. Let them deal with nature.....a fire (or forest fire), for example, could damage the PCs' holdings even if they teleport out, so they need to come up with a better solution to the problem.

Let the next random group of orcs be an embassy from Vecna to court the PC's favour. When the PCs kill the lowly orcs to take thier stuff, Vecna will be plenty upset. Make sure that their "treasure" includes documents penned by the Archlich to verify the orcs' identity.

There are a lot of challenges besides killing things. Seek challenges that don't rely on attack bonuses, AC, or saves. Go with less used skills, things that require unskilled Attribute checks, etc.