The Problem With Spot and Listen

[ThoughtBubble]

And here I expected a statement that, since most people with them tend to max hide/move silently that to use Spot and Listen as an effective counter also requires maxing it. Thus, as skills go, they end up as more of an all or nothing type approach.

 

[XeviatTranion]

Uh what about "Marv" from Sin City, STR & CON probably 18 or 20 in D&D trems andgood DEX also but ugly as a mud post and not much else goign fo rhim in the perosaniltiy department. His looks certainly aren't tied to his physcial capacities. I can name tons of ficitional heroes and real life folks that are strong and tough and aren't pretty to look at, it doesn't really hold up that strong or agile or hardy people are going to be physcially appealing people. There are plenty of attractive clumsy, unfit weaklings in film and t.v. all the time.

Well, Marv is a perfect example of someone with a high charisma but who looks bad. And marv does have a very high str and a rediculously high con (probably diehard to), decent dex. But that ugly looked like a combination of a nose that was broken several too many times and some horrible scars. He could have been very attractive at one point, but he's a prime example of someone who got his butt kicked by every 'ent in the ugly forest.

I wasn't sure if old age favored near or far-sidedness; both are traits (but they don't have a high enough penalty in my opinion), so picking them up seems fair. Perhaps upon reaching each age category, one must make a fort save, DC 20, or pick up one or the other?

 

[TheRelinquished]

The conversation has become very interesting. And given the arguments made here, I believe I will reconsider my previous assertions, and focus instead on the old age portion of this problem.

For starters, a cummulative -1 penalty to spot and listen at the old age and venerable milestones (thereby counteracting any change in their Wisdom modifiers that result from aging). Also, I think that the "Old Age Feat" idea propsed is a very interesting system, though it would require a lot of development to make it broad enough for the players. I'm sure that many ideas could be taken from the traits and flaws lists.

While I'm not completely satisfied with the conclusion regarding what spot and listen is, and I still believe that other measures could be taken by those far more perceptive than myself, I will continue to use Wisdom as the modifier for the two skills, and will deal with any other discontinuities as they show up in my campaign.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Very interesting thread. I certainly hope Cabral will start an "Old Age" thread for further development of this idea......?

 

[Cabral]

Uhm. My attention span is kinda small ... seriously though, I'm a bit tapped for ideas on this one. I'll come back to in a few days and see what I can muster