The proper role of supporting NPCs?

[CruelSummerLord]

One of the most common critiques leveled at high-level NPCs in established settings is that they steal the spotlight from the players, and can serve as a deus ex machina, or otherwise take on the "real" threats while the PCs are involved with the lesser villains.

What, then, is the proper role for the powerful gray-bearded wizard who's old enough to be the PCs' grandfather? What role can he, or a similar character play, that the players can accept and who also materially contributes to the plot?

Is it acceptable, for example, for the NPC to be the one to do the background research that points the PCs in the direction they need to go to find the MacGuffin, or to prepare the scroll they need to read to be able to weaken the defenses of the demonic BBEG, or otherwise provide exposition the PCs can use in making their preparations or otherwise carrying out their plans. In this case, the NPC provides the tools, but it's up to the players to figure out how to actually make best use of it, and they're the ones that end up doing the dangerous stuff in the end...although they usually end up with the most glory for doing so.

In my own view of the Forgotten Realms, say, Elminster really is a very powerful wizard who has lived for centuries beyond the typical human lifespan...but he's also a tired old man, feeling the pinch of age and burned out from the traumas of fighting for centuries against the horrors and evils of the world. He's become very crochety and irritable, and absolutely hates to be disturbed...but he will help young adventurers in need if they prove that their cause is just. He'll conduct the research, scribe the scroll, cast the divinations, basically the support work the PCs need to get the job done but is otherwise generally too boring for the players themselves.

What he won't do, however, is get out into the field or otherwise offer tactical advice-such things are best left up to the young people, who have the initiative and energy to take care of such matters. Those young people, inevitably, turn out to be the PCs.

Is this an acceptable role for a supporting NPC? What other kinds of supporting NPCs, like a king or prominent nobleman who becomes an ally or supporter of the PCs, exist, and what could they do that would be acceptable to your players?

 

[FalcWP]

Generally, I like the PCs to be *the* heroes of my campaign - while there are certainly other powerful forces for good out there, the players should be in the center of all the action, and never watching. Things I try to keep in mind include...

1) Don't let NPCs step in and save the PCs *unless* the PCs have done something that would cause that NPC to step in. If the players take the time to befriend or seek out a powerful wizard and influence him to the point that he's willing to help them, then ok. He might step in at a dire moment. But only if the PCs have influenced him towards that. They've got the option to ignore him... and by interacting with him, they run the risk of annoying him, which could even make him a foe.

2) Generally speaking, most of my movers and shakers in 3E were NPC classes. The high ranking noble was likely an aristocrat. The respected priest was an adept, or maybe even a commoner or expert (or another aristocrat). There is no real reason to tie influence to combat prowess for most NPCs. In 4E, I wouldn't even stat these guys up - interacting with them would be a skill challenge with appropriate DCs.

Its worth noting that I prefer settings like Eberron where high level uber NPCs are rare. I prefer this precisely because it removes the crutch of an Elminster who can swoop in and fix things at need. If my setting had need of such an NPC for story reasons (the *only* reason I'd include one) - I'd probably run him as you described. Sure, he can go fix things, but he's busy. He'll have young adventurers go do it, and maybe dispense a bit of advice. But that still feels forced to me, and always has.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Usually powerful NPCs act more like "forces of nature" then anything else, they sweep through a area and spark numerous plot and story points then dissipate.

It is funny actually, I have one NPC that always seems to follow me in some fashion in all my campaigns. A intelligent raven; be it a Promethean Raven, a Aberrated Raven, a Ghost Raven, a Raven that exists only within the minds of the PCs, etc.

 

[frankthedm]

It is funny actually, I have one NPC that always seems to follow me in some fashion in all my campaigns. A intelligent raven; be it a Promethean Raven, a Aberrated Raven, a Ghost Raven, a Raven that exists only within the minds of the PCs, etc.

Raven is often a symbol of death. Given the body piles many RPG parties tend to leave behind IMO players should not be surprised when the Psychopomps stop bothering to hide their presence.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Raven is often a symbol of death. Given the body piles many RPG parties tend to leave behind IMO players should not be surprised when the Psychopomps stop bothering to hide their presence.

Well for me, I can semi-trace down why I always have a intelligent raven appear somewhere thanks to my love of "Crow" from The Longest Journey.

I just switched the breed of the bird Though for actual usage it changes wildly and almost always accidental when I think, "hmm... intelligent raven works here" and don't catch myself till later.

 

[S'mon]

I like your approach. I generally want NPCs to be competent within their area of expertise but overshadowed by the PCs. In my 3.5e campaign, all NPCs are NPC-class; modelled on the PC classes in Mentzer BECM D&D, so they normally get no feats, fewer spells, less hit points, etc. The PCs' patron is King Thongar, once a mighty dragon-slaying hero, now a tired old man looking for a younger generation of heroes to take up the fight against evil. The goodly Seers of Ashkelos are great for divination and making magic items, but the high level ones are old and frail too, it's up to the PCs to do the dungeon-bashing.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

One of the most common critiques leveled at high-level NPCs in established settings is that they steal the spotlight from the players, and can serve as a deus ex machina, or otherwise take on the "real" threats while the PCs are involved with the lesser villains.

What, then, is the proper role for the powerful gray-bearded wizard who's old enough to be the PCs' grandfather? What role can he, or a similar character play, that the players can accept and who also materially contributes to the plot?

If he's that old, why hasn't he retired? He's not a Chosen of Mystra, he doesn't live forever, he should be slowing down with age, only stirring himself if he or his "town" are directly threatened, and only leaving to go raid a dungeon if things are desperate.

Such powerful, elder mages should be rare, otherwise every town is going to have its own defender mage.

Is it acceptable, for example, for the NPC to be the one to do the background research that points the PCs in the direction they need to go to find the MacGuffin, or to prepare the scroll they need to read to be able to weaken the defenses of the demonic BBEG, or otherwise provide exposition the PCs can use in making their preparations or otherwise carrying out their plans. In this case, the NPC provides the tools, but it's up to the players to figure out how to actually make best use of it, and they're the ones that end up doing the dangerous stuff in the end...although they usually end up with the most glory for doing so.

Yes Note that the players should be the ones proposing what he research, at least much of the time, so they're still the ones driving the story. At least, IMO.

In my own view of the Forgotten Realms, say, Elminster really is a very powerful wizard who has lived for centuries beyond the typical human lifespan...but he's also a tired old man,

Bad example. He's a Chosen of Mystra, after all, so aging doesn't affect him that much. And while he's so old he literally went senile, this does not affect more active CoM like Khelben (who so very recently died, but was a problem in the setting for many years).

Khelben is an active player on the scene. He helps run Waterdeep, has his own organization (the Moonstars), and has an information network so precise he knows when a single drow is trying to "infiltrate" Waterdeep (but didn't know why).

Also, as a high-level mage, Khelben can teleport, so (unlike Drizzt) he can be literally anywhere there's a massive problem. And to top it off, he can solve magical problems the PCs can never solve, like moving elven gates.

And the less powerful Storm Silverhand is capable of sealing off an entire castle with Silverfire and defeating a Malaugrym that thought it was Bane (and it had good reason, since it was deific powers). And she has access to Cormyr's magical vault, since she used to sleep with Vangerdahast! So, influence and mega deific-derived powers in possibly the weakest of the Chosen.

And if that isn't bad enough, Mystra has personally defended Elminster at least twice (most obviously in Elminster in Hell), and Azuth will defend the "ghost" Chosen of Mystra if anyone tries to destroy her (says so directly in 2e's Heroes Lorebook).

Chosen of Mystra aren't just powerful NPCs, or even deific agents, they're basically walking deus ex machina. Dealing with them takes much more effort than dealing with regular powerful good-aligned NPCs.

Is this an acceptable role for a supporting NPC?

So the answer to that is no. The Chosen are capable of much more than that, and most were good-aligned non-retired powerful adventurers, many with social influence (two or more owned kingdoms, for instance). Alustriel herself participated in battles (helping Drizzt out) while the Simbul almost singled-handedly rendered the Red Wizards of Thay a joke.

What other kinds of supporting NPCs, like a king or prominent nobleman who becomes an ally or supporter of the PCs, exist, and what could they do that would be acceptable to your players?

All these guys are acceptable. Personally powerful NPCs who aren't villains should be rare, and if possible shouldn't be wizards (at least not in 3.x rules!).

 

[Reynard]

I think that if the campaign is built around saving the world (or a portion of it) from great evil or whatever, it's probably best not to have these kinds of uber powerful NPCs exist at all, if you want to maintain some versimilitude and have the PCs be the heroes of the story. Or, at the very least, they need o be taken out of the picture or made inefectual in regards to the specific threat.

In campaigns where the safety of the world doesn't rest on the PCs' shoulders, these kinds of NPCs are easier to incorporate without the threat of them overshadowing the PCs. If the party are simply fame/glory/wealth seeking adventurers, or if their goals and motivations are more personal and smaller in scope, powerful NPCs can easily serve as mentors, foils and antgonists (without necessarily being villains).

I started one campaign with a number of (relatively) high level NPCs present in the PCs' hometown. They were a retired adventuring party that had established the town some 20 years before. Early on in the campaign, they served as mentors to the PCs and provided adventure hooks and role-playing opportunities. As the campaign progressed, it became apparent that the nature of the underlying threat was going to inevitably draw the NPCs into the conflict. i thought about it for a bit, and realized that if I realized it, so did the villains. So, the druid and the wizard NPCs -- the most dangerous to the villains plans -- were assasinated. This had 2 big benefits: 1) it took those NPCs out of the equation, and 2) it established how powerful and dangerous the villains were. At the same time, the PCs were just starting to gain some power and noteriety of their own -- enough to be trusted with the task by the remaining NPC (a fighter and mayor of the town; he had neither the personal power nor the freedom to wander off to take on the bad guys himself) but not so much that they were obvious targets for assassination by the villains. It worked out well, and in the sequel campaign these PCs became NPCs in much the same role as the previous set.(same players).

 

[CruelSummerLord]

Generally, I like the PCs to be *the* heroes of my campaign - while there are certainly other powerful forces for good out there, the players should be in the center of all the action, and never watching. Things I try to keep in mind include...

1) Don't let NPCs step in and save the PCs *unless* the PCs have done something that would cause that NPC to step in. If the players take the time to befriend or seek out a powerful wizard and influence him to the point that he's willing to help them, then ok. He might step in at a dire moment. But only if the PCs have influenced him towards that. They've got the option to ignore him... and by interacting with him, they run the risk of annoying him, which could even make him a foe.

2) Generally speaking, most of my movers and shakers in 3E were NPC classes. The high ranking noble was likely an aristocrat. The respected priest was an adept, or maybe even a commoner or expert (or another aristocrat). There is no real reason to tie influence to combat prowess for most NPCs. In 4E, I wouldn't even stat these guys up - interacting with them would be a skill challenge with appropriate DCs.

Its worth noting that I prefer settings like Eberron where high level uber NPCs are rare. I prefer this precisely because it removes the crutch of an Elminster who can swoop in and fix things at need. If my setting had need of such an NPC for story reasons (the *only* reason I'd include one) - I'd probably run him as you described. Sure, he can go fix things, but he's busy. He'll have young adventurers go do it, and maybe dispense a bit of advice. But that still feels forced to me, and always has.

I agree with all these things, but so far only S'mon has really answered my actual question-what role can prominent NPCs play to advance the plot, or otherwise help the players, that doesn't lead to them hogging the spotlight? I too prefer lower-level settings, where a prominent NPC's power can be reflected in ways other than his official stats, but what positive role can such characters play that doesn't diminsh the PCs' roles?

If he's that old, why hasn't he retired? He's not a Chosen of Mystra, he doesn't live forever, he should be slowing down with age, only stirring himself if he or his "town" are directly threatened, and only leaving to go raid a dungeon if things are desperate.

Such powerful, elder mages should be rare, otherwise every town is going to have its own defender mage.

You forget that I wrote that this was my personal view of the Realms, not the canonical one. This would be how I would run him, and characters like him, if I were running an FR game. Storm Silverhand would be far less powerful than she is depicted in canon, while Elminster would be a grumpy old crank who can't step in to save the day if the PCs screw up-if the PCs lose, it's game over. He's too burned out to stop the villains if he has to.

In this version, Elminster has retired, and is only capable of mustering himself if the PCs take the initiative and ask him for help.

Again, let's repeat-what kind of roles can prominent NPCs, whether they be elder mages or noble aristocrats, play to advance the plot or help the PCs in a way that doesn't overshadow the players?

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Well I think the roles they can play are pretty well known. A few that occur to me:

The Aged Mentor. Gives advice and training but is too old to face the rigours of actual adventuring. Or who has a specific weakness that the BBEG can exploit. This latter is a classic of martial arts games where there needs to be some explanation as to why the old mentor, who can kick the PCs butts without raising a sweat, still has to send them out to fight the BBEG.

The Foil. Not an enemy per se but someone who has to be got around or placated in some way. The grizzled police lieutnenant who yells at Dirty Harry and says 'you're off the case!' Or the monarch who refuses to believe that such and such a bad thing can actually happen and wont take the necessary steps to head it off.

The Contact. Capital 'C.' The person who knows everyone. A born middleman. Need to find a secret way into the palace? Need to fence some hot property? The Contact can put you in touch with someone who can help.

Comedy Relief. Need someone to be a fool? (either just for laughs or to give object lessons to the PCs) an NPC can take the role and it stops the PCs becoming laughing stocks. I suspect most players don't enjoy being laughing stocks.

Cannon Fodder. What the hell else are 0 level men at arms for anyway? Plus, if you're got access to Animate Dead, they're recyclable.

The Big Hero. Hell why not? Oh I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but some people might actually enjoy playing the supporting characters who do the real work while the main hero (for some reason I'm imagining a big dumb paladin) gets all the glory. Inspector Gadget to the player's Penny.

The Rival. Someone who is after the same goals as the Heroes. Someone who is an ally when needed but at the same time someone the PCs want to beat to the goal.

REMFs. People to do the cooking and cleaning and cast the healing spells. Maybe provide a few homespun homilies.

Plot Hooks. Need someone kidnapped to really fire up the PCs? Why not use that cheeking cockney kid who helped them hide from the town guard that time.

Sympathisers and hero worshippers. The helpful cockney kid might be helping just because it'll tick off the guard. Or they might be fans of the heroes' exploits. After all PCs (and players) want a bit of glory and adoration don't they?

OK, a few of these are not a supporting role in sense of helping the PCs. More supporting cast in a dramatic sense. But I'm happy to chat about both.