D&D General The Rakshasa and Genie Problem

[S'mon]

With the genies, they have such a rich and complex variety of types, morals etc that I don't have a problem with them tending to have Middle Eastern type cultures - efreet, dao, marids, jann & djinn cover a huge range.

I haven't seen Rakshasa 'represent Indian culture' but they tend to come from the world's India-analogue area. I normally pair Rakshasa (evil) with Deva (good), as in the 4e cosmology. In Golarion the Rakshasa are clearly from the India area. In my version of Primeval Thule they are actually from future-Mars, and don't really have a strongly Indian culture I'd say.

I can't say I've seen these strongly supernatural creatures "represent the culture" in a fantasy setting. I'm trying to think of an example where this might be the case - Hobgoblins are sometimes depicted with east-Asian type arms and armour but their culture isn't presented as analogous to any east-Asian culture, it tends to draw if anything on Roman Empire militaristic tropes.

Edit: What I have seen fairly often are fantasy human cultures that are clearly based on real world human cultures, with some designated Good and some Evil. I just got the Mystara Atruaghin Clans book from 1991 and it's very noticeable how eg the Plains Indians analogue tribe are designated 'Good' while the Aztec analogue tribe are designated 'Evil'. The Mystara books in general had a lot of this kind of cultural stereotyping, eg the Germanic-named Hattians of south Thyatis are generally Evil, and their Storm Soldiers are clear Nazi analogues. The Mongolian-analogue Ethengar Khanate gets a more sympathetic treatment, perhaps surprisingly. The Known World/Mystara line really bought into the current views of 1980s America, so eg with Ylaruam (Arabia) the Sunni analogue Preceptors are the good guys and the Shia analogue Kin faction are the bad guys, while out west the evil Master of the Desert Nomads is depicted as Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini.

 

[TheSword]

Can I ask what it is about the demon wastes and carrion tribes that make you think they are an analogy for South Asia? Aside from the headquarters of the Lords of Dust in Ashtakala I can’t really see any link. Even the Rakshasa themselves really only take their name and title from south Asian languages. Other than that I’m not seeing the link?

 

[JohnF]

Gonna agree with Dannyalcatraz about reskinning and renaming.

These days, I'm happily looking at this issue (which is a legitimate one) as an opportunity to refresh my stable of baddies and innovate my stale campaign worlds. Borrowed creatures and concepts have become my starting points of inspiration. With a name change, an ability tweak or two, and a little cosmetic zjooshing, and - voila - now I've got a "new" thing to play with, one that will develop along its own distinct mythological trajectory, liberated from long-established expectations.

 

[Argyle King]

In your opinion, does it "help" when two cultures are borrowed and blended?

I think it's fair to say that a lot of D&D Dwarves are played as some sort of Scottish Vikings.

Is there a value in using mythological terms with which people are familiar as shorthand (even when the D&D version is different) to give players a general ballpark from which to start?

For example, I think most people have some general idea of what dragons, elves, and wizards are.

Would the entry-level barrier for learning the game change if those elements were replaced with floobens, margles, and zoops?

 

[Lyxen]

In your opinion, does it "help" when two cultures are borrowed and blended?

I think it does, actually, see below.

I think it's fair to say that a lot of D&D Dwarves are played as some sort of Scottish Vikings.

I understand it's the thing in english-speaking countries, although I think it's a bit recent, I don't think it's the case for example here in France, I think we are more "true" to dwarves as described by Tolkien, for example.

Is there a value in using mythological terms with which people are familiar as shorthand (even when the D&D version is different) to give players a general ballpark from which to start?

I think there is. Sometimes it's a fantasy one ("Tolkien" dwarves, for example), sometimes it's a real world one (rakshasas, genies), but people like to be able to hook unto some sort of stereotype, even if it's immediately to tell them that it's not exactly a stereotype, in which case they will also latch on the differences, see for example "scottish vikings" for dwarves. It's very hard to imagine a complete fantasy culture from scratch without references, stereotypes are useful as long as they are respectful.

For example, in Glorantha, it's fairly easy to see Sartarites as vikings and lunars as romans, it helps at first, because you can then focus on the differences and people will then get into the details.

For example, I think most people have some general idea of what dragons, elves, and wizards are.

Would the entry-level barrier for learning the game change if those elements were replaced with floobens, margles, and zoops?

Yes, I think it would make things harder, and if they were remotely similar, people, after hearing your descriptions of floobens would immediately say something like "OK they are like dragons, but with four wings and speaking with an irish accent, right ?"

 

[Argyle King]

I don't fully understand where the Scottish Viking thing came from.

In my home games, I imagine dwarves as a mix between Grecco-Roman culture and the dwarves from Dragon Age Origins.

The Greek/Roman influence is because I imagined a group of people infatuated with stoneworking producing sculptures and artwork similar to ancient Rome.

It also allowed for ancestor worship, in which I used names of Greek gods and mythology figures to represent famous dwarves. Aphrodite became a dwarf famous for embodying the Dwarven ideal of beauty; Hercules for having legendary strength; and etc.

 

[Lyxen]

I don't fully understand where the Scottish Viking thing came from.

I might be mistaken, but I think this is a Warhammer influence actually.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Does anyone have any suggestions or thoughts?

(I don't want to mark this thread as a (+) thread, because debating the different options and discussing which would be best is the point of this thread, but I do want to keep the spirit. Please, don't threadcrap or troll. Please be sincere in your questioning and not adverse to the base premise. If you don't think these kinds of discussions are necessary or important, just don't participate.)

I don’t think that this issue has a one-size fit all solution. One solution is to ensure that Rakshasha and Genies AREN’T the sole representative of their culture.

To change things up, I’m currently running a campaign in the non-western part of the world. Having multiple characters that are from the Middle-East can mitigate the issue that the sole “MiddleEastern” character is either a villain or subservient to the PCs.

 

[aco175]

I find it helpful to have some sort of basis to ground my game in and some of the stereotypes come out from a flavor perspective. A market in a kingdom more like England will look different than one in my more Egyptian kingdom. A genie from a distant land may have some of the troupes of that land instead of the more generic 'English' default like most of my games. Most of these differences need to come from other Earth cultures since I have only these images to work with. In reality, most of these other kingdoms are slanted back towards my default when dealing with customs and laws.

Would things be just as bad if I did away with the other cultures and just had my default one? I tend to go with the idea of things being ok if I can keep things from poking fun at other cultures and purposefully trying to show all of something about one culture and not 2 sides.

 

[Helldritch]

I don't fully understand where the Scottish Viking thing came from.

In my home games, I imagine dwarves as a mix between Grecco-Roman culture and the dwarves from Dragon Age Origins.

The Greek/Roman influence is because I imagined a group of people infatuated with stoneworking producing sculptures and artwork similar to ancient Rome.

It also allowed for ancestor worship, in which I used names of Greek gods and mythology figures to represent famous dwarves. Aphrodite became a dwarf famous for embodying the Dwarven ideal of beauty; Hercules for having legendary strength; and etc.

I might be mistaken, but I think this is a Warhammer influence actually.

Nope. Never saw a dwarf speak with a scottish accent before... Warcraft! And it got even more ingrained with World of Warcraft. Personally, before Warcraft and WoW, my dwarves usually had a deep bariton voice. I think it fits them a lot more. (Even their women have deep bariton voices by the way. That is just how I see them).