The Sage - A new base class

[Ahnehnois]

Intimidate I'd remove without hesitation.

Intimidate isn't all about being loud and threatening. I imagine the sage quietly and firmly getting people to do what he wants. Is it as appropriate as Diplo and Bluff? No. I might remove it now that the sage can select additional class skills.

I could see someone having Escape Artist without being one of the agile classes, but that would need to include Sleight of Hands, kind of a deft hands group skill. Think about it.

Maybe you're right...

If I'd have to keep one of those three, I'd keep Disguise.

Sages aren't quintessential spies but they can darn well trick people. Being observant helps make a comvincong disguise. I don't see it being a popular choice, but it isn't that popular for the other classes that have it either.

Clever Combat and Defensive Insight look a abit awkward now, because of half modifiers bonus.

Awkward yes, but I think they're balanced at least and I want to give something at early levels while saving the full version for high levels. The Greater versions at those levels would be too powerful, combined with everything else the sage gets. The other thing I had thought of was making the sage assign his Defensive Insight to a single foe, like dodge, and upgrading that at 15th, which might be cleaner.
I don't know how to reword to combat Int ability though. I want to give some benefit, but I want to make the sage take Weapon Focus to get a better benefit. If I simply applies Int to attacks first and to damage later, why would a level 1 sage take Weapon Focus except to gain the benefit of the feat itself (which isn't that great compared to having a martial or exotic weapon).

Sage Advice gives a bonus if you already have taken a feat?

You're supposed to be taking these sorts of feats anyway. In my mind, it's a reward for taking the feat, not a requirement to take it. You could say the same think about bardic music, which *requires* you to take Perform, a skill that makes sense for the bard to take but would not normally be forced on him.
I can try to reword it so a sage without the feat gets something.

Skill focus is already a bonus, why make it worth it twice?

It's not that big of a bonus; part of this is about making Skill Focus a better option. The idea was partially from this suggestion: "The courtier, from OA, had an ability. that whenever they took skill focus in an intelligence, wisdom, or charsima based skill they increased the bonus by +2. That seems to fit the flavor of the sage quite well, and it provides an incentive to take skill focus."

Slippery Mind is a bit too good here. Remember that it is given to classes that have a low Will save. Coupled with a high Will save, the Sage becomes almost invulnerable to mind-affecting effects. Doesn't seem to me like the right thing.

I don't see this as any different from rogues and monks having evasion in their good save, making them almost immune to reflex save spells. I want the sage to be almost immune to mind-affecting. He's a strong-minded character. And if there's one rogue ability the sage ought to have, it's this one.
I'm still not satisfied to be throwing it in at 17th level, but I can't find a better place for it. I'd really like to make it a choice instead of a bonus feat or something, but I don't have enough abilities for a real special ability list and it would be awkward to put it there.

First define what is an adjacent ally.

It is not clear? Maybe I'll reword to within reach.

Now the really odd thing is that the Wis bonus is limited by the Cha bonus. I'd remove that altogether.

For simplicity's sake, I guess I will.



I edited various abilities and clarified some things.

 

[Ismaul]

You omitted to rework Greater Defensive Insight to say that the Wis bonus to AC now applies to all opponents. I like the new version of Defensive insight and Think Fast. More simple and clear now.

I don't know about Clever Combat. Giving the full Int bonus would be too good. Particularly when combined with Weak Spot. Weak Spot and Clever Combat together gives them an attack bonus similar to a fighter! The one thing I wouldn't do is make them better at combat. Right now with their abilities they are better at hitting than rogues, but rogues hurt more. IMO this makes them better than rogues and bards in combat. Add on top of that a couple of bonus feats, and they're set. The commentary said earlier by Undead Lincoln definitively isn't true anymore.

More later

 

[Ahnehnois]

You omitted to rework Greater Defensive Insight to say that the Wis bonus to AC now applies to all opponents.

Whoops. Did that on my copy but not the boards. Fixed.

It should be noted that Weak Spot, unlike sneak attack, requires a difficult skill check. Sneak attack requires an opposed check or just flanking. The sage will beat up pretty well on creatures he knows about, but the ability will only apply if he has a lot of ranks in the right knowledge and rolls well. Getting the bonus against another humanoid is especially hard because you have to have the right knowledge: local.

Weak Spot and Clever Combat together gives them an attack bonus similar to a fighter!

Possibly true, but then, sneak attack is much more damage than fighters ever do. The way a finesse class competes in combat is by being specialized at least a little, and gaining great bonuses if they're in the right situation.

Right now with their abilities they are better at hitting than rogues, but rogues hurt more.

That's the idea I was shooting for originally.

IMO this makes them better than rogues and bards in combat. Add on top of that a couple of bonus feats, and they're set. The commentary said earlier by Undead Lincoln definitively isn't true anymore.

That's good.