The top 2 reasons why gaming groups break up (that you can control)

[StalkingBlue]

Really great feedback everybody, but what are the ways that you prevent those things from happening. What can you truly do about players who move away or those who have work schedule changes? Personality conflicts are another example that were cited, but no specifics were given. What do you do about them?...

Well, the first two things are pretty obvious, aren't they?

How do I prevent players from moving away?! Easy. I don't.

What do I do about players' changed life schedules? (Could be work, could be the non-gaming spouse's night off work changing, could be a new baby or anything.) Again, obviously there's nothing I do about other people's lives. If the group can reschedule the game night to accommodate the player in question, I'll certainly do it. If not, then not. Find a new player if one player leaving leaves the group short.


What do I do about personality problems? Depends what the problem is, judging by the tons of threads about complaint threads about the issue on these boards I'm sure you'll get dozens of answers on that one.

If there's disagreement or tension about something, generally what I'll do is talk. If it's between players and I'm the DM, I'll expect the players to deal with it on their own and in a mature fashion but I'll make suggestions if people come to me, and I'll signal that I'm willing to listen if people appear uncertain whether or not to approach me.

Not everybody can get on well with everybody else. I've recently booted a player from my game because of interpersonal 'chemistry' issues. He hadn't done anything wrong, it was simply that I and a couple of others in the group weren't happy to have him around. Difficult decision? You bet. Right decision? Absolutely. I have one problem less and the atmosphere at the table has improved noticeably. (He's an ok player by all means, btw, and he's now playing in another friend's group, which is great.)

 

[Silver Moon]

I ran a game where we were using a veeerrrryyy slow combat system. The players still showed week after week, month after month because they enjoyed my entirely homebrew world. They all had fun together.

Ditto, I did a game set in the Forgotten Realms Orient with consistently interesting role playing encounters and NPC's and we played five months of weekly games until I tossed in the first combat encounter. And much to my surprise I had players upset about having the combat night then, as it didn't really advance the story and it kept them from getting to the final destination by a week!

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Ditto, I did a game set in the Forgotten Realms Orient with consistently interesting role playing encounters and NPC's and we played five months of weekly games until I tossed in the first combat encounter. And much to my surprise I had players upset about having the combat night then, as it didn't really advance the story and it kept them from getting to the final destination by a week!

If I ever get a contract in New Hampshire, I'm joining your group.

 

[Silver Moon]

If I ever get a contract in New Hampshire, I'm joining your group.

Well, if that type of game appeals to you we would welcome you.

BTW, here is the "Story Hour" link for the above mentioned module. It ran for 36 game nights so the Story Hour is a bit long (95 chapters) but I think you'll find it a fun read. (and please leave a reader comment when you're done).

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28642

 

[ciaran00]

1. The DM tries to re-create the wheel every session and pats himself on the back for it but eventually burns-out.

2. The DM doesn't create or enforce speedy combats.

No way in hell I'll ever buy a pregen'd module. Nothing fits into my world and I like it that way. Dm burnout for the above reasons (I've seen) tend to occur because the players are too lazy to help out. And yes, players need to help.

ciaran

 

[Ssyleia]

I have an ongoing D&D group since 1986... or was it 85? 87? Well - the year doesn't really matter because my point is that it has been going on for a long time, meanwhile the better part of my life...

Out of my original gaming group only 1 player remains. I should add the point that this particular player had taken an out-time of 10 years - so he was not with "us" all the time...

Now, I was lucky enough, that I usually have more players available who are interested in joining a group than players who want to quit. But since this threat is about quitting I want to put up the reasons here why "my players" have quit to add to the discussion

Reason Number 1: New Girlfriend. She doesn't game and she has absolutely no understanding that her boyfriend spends so much time on this...

Reason Number 2: Kids. Many people can barely handle their daytime job when they have a newborn - To them, gaming becomes a chore rather than a hobby...

Reason Number 3: Relocation. As today's job market is tight (especially in Germany) a new job sometimes means relocation. Usually the person in question takes upon him some amount of driving to attend gaming sessions - combinded with meeting old friends, etc, but after half a year it always becomes too much of a chore to enjoy...

Reason Number 4: Dissention. For whatever reason, always unrelated to gaming, one player starts to hate another player. Either one or the other quits...

Reason Number 5: Drugs. I cannot sit still and watch when a person throws his life away by using drugs. Usually this means that the person in question no longer enjoys my company...

Reason Number 6: Seen it all, done it all. About a third of all players quits gaming alltogether after 1-2 years...

Reason Number 7: My own campaign. Some players quit so they can DM a campaign of their own. Sometimes they return after a brief absence...

So, that's my impression on why people leave a RPG round / a round collapses

 

[Janx]

I disagree with emirikol's approach on this topic. The stats seems suspect. The 2 conclusions seem incorrect. I suspect he's a member of the Adventure Publishers Lobby

Since most of Emirikol's post is about #1, and not #2, the answer to his earlier question must be that slow combats aren't that much of a problem (he certainly didn't spend much time on it).

This topic has been done before. The conclusion before was that it was PEOPLE problems.

The latest ENworld poll on homebrew versus pre-made campaign worlds was only 35% of GMs were using pre-made worlds. I don't know the survey size.

Games die because of Crappy GMs. Jordan Weisman (FASA, battletech, WizKids guy) pet theory is that the market is short on good GMs, so he designs games that are GM-less. The company provides the story line, and has it advance via novels and tournament events. I have left games halfway through due to bad GMs. Those campaigns have died shortly thereafter. And these guys were using published material.

Games die when players move/can't play. Various reasons cause this, but some players hold a game together. When those players vanish, the dynamic of the game falters, and things end.

Games die because of bad players who are disruptive to the game. Some players suck the fun out of game. This makes other people quit and leave.

The above factors are more likely to be critical than Emirikol's. In fact, more of his topic seems to be ideas to help enhance games, than actual factors of games dying.

I spent less than a month to design my campaign world. I wrote up an outline, and then defined only the pieces I needed. I spend about 4-6 hours writing each adventure for our montly game. Each month, I spend 4-6 hours expanding a new area of the campaign world when I need more info for the players. We've been playing once a month for 6 months. So far, we've been happy.

I've also been playing with the same group of friends since 1990. Heck, we get together 1-2 times a year just to play, and we're divided by 1500 miles.

All that means is that I'm an exception to the rule, but it also means that not everyone has the same problems.

So what constitutes success for a campaign. WotC says campaigns last about a year and run to about 10-15th level or so.

What fixes some of this:

avoid GM burn-out: borrow ideas/material from others
Rotate campaigns: multiple GMs in the group, run 1 GM's campaign for 3 months, then another
Improve GM quality: teach old GMs to be better, teach new GMs how not to suck
Improve player pool: Build your gaming group out of real friends, not people you picked up at the gaming shop. Ditch losers.
Sick Players Need Counseling: some players have issues. They need to see that and get fixed before the integrate with society.
Play efficiently: there are ways to run games efficiently and to keep combats fast.

 

[Emirikol]

What fixes some of this:
avoid GM burn-out: borrow ideas/material from others
Rotate campaigns: multiple GMs in the group, run 1 GM's campaign for 3 months, then another
Improve GM quality: teach old GMs to be better, teach new GMs how not to suck
Improve player pool: Build your gaming group out of real friends, not people you picked up at the gaming shop. Ditch losers.
Sick Players Need Counseling: some players have issues. They need to see that and get fixed before the integrate with society.
Play efficiently: there are ways to run games efficiently and to keep combats fast.

That's actually my point. I'm trying to help DM's _not_ burn-out. Everybody here knows the various causes because we've all been there

On this subject, you'd think that the RPGA would focus harder on this, however it's difficult to expel those unpleasant personalities that tend to hover around the game and make hobby gaming a diseased entity. They drive away other players and burn-out DM's. We have lots of 'names' and 'categories' for these types of 'people' once they reach a threshold to become labelled as such. I've written many-a-posts on just this sort of topic (summarized: it's the extremes of unpleasant personalities that our hobby tends to have more numbers of than other hobbies).

My point isn't there though: It's on the things we can control (i.e. the top two things that you can control..so I updated the subject header). DM burnout is something that you can control. Player boredom is something that you can control (e.g. by simply speeding up your combats nails about 65% of the problem).

jh



..

 

[monkeygrrl]

I'm going to have to throw my hat in with the "real life issues" crowd. I would lump jobs, SOs, personality conflicts, kids, etc. all together.

I don't know that I've seen a group break up because of DM burnout. If our regular DM gets burned out, we either take a break from RPGs for awhile (but still get together for board games or other pursuits) until he's feeling better, or just ask someone else to start up an alternate campaign for awhile.

As for combat boredom... sheesh, we used to play rolemaster, and if we could get through those combats, we can get through anything together seriously, it seems strange to me that someone would break up a group over something like that, unless combat is making up an enormous part of your game. then I would consider it more of a player style difference.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I've left one group due to personality/play style conflicts and had two others break up because the GM (me) moved out of town in both home and job location and got married. Well, and the group that all moved on after college.

Slow combats have only ever bothered me when they were the result of other issues- such as overpowered characters who each got 6-8 actions a round. Homebrew? Homebrewing rules. Sure you can do it badly, but I've seen modules done much, MUCH worse than I've ever even heard of homebrewing done. And the first posts stats I'm fairly sure were pulled directly from a nether region to add 'crunch' to the opinion. Anyway...

Sure, players getting bored is a good reason that a group could break up, but neither of the two listed factors is a big bordom issue to me. I get bored when too much railroading makes the campaign feel like a video game, or when a Golden Child takes all the RP and plot time. DM burnout can be a good reason too, but I've never seen it caused by doing the work that homebrewing DMs don't just enjoy but sometimes can't help but do in their heads whether they have a game or not. (my personal expereince here, but others have indicated similar on the thread)

The solution to both these problems is the same, IMHO - communication. Find out what kind of game you are getting into, and let everyone know what you are and aren't enjoying whether as player or DM.

Kahuna Burger