The Value of my DDI Subscription

[Quickleaf]

character builder

As a point of observation, I signed up for DDi when 4e first came out but when my OS crashed I lost the old CB. So in order to reinstall it I relied on a resourceful ENWorlder who found the exe file through Google Archives.
There was no mention of how to access the old CB on WotC website.

I re-installed it and found out that I couldn't get any updates through WotC.
So the old CB content is frozen around PHB2.

Basically, if I don't switch over to the new CB then I've lost information. While the analogy is not entirely the same, if this were physical data it would be a trade-in. Something like getting the Rules Compendium and 2 Essentials player's books but I'd have to give up my PHB. Sure there might be *more* information, but shouldn't a customer get to choose which they prefer, especially customers who signed up before the new CB?

 

[Scribble]

You said that you wanted to know why, not debate it, but OK

I create my characters in both an online, and off-line environment. I play in both an online, and off-line environment, and frequently end up levelling-up during play. I use the CBC as a live character sheet. Our campaign has a few simple house rules, which despite their simplicity aren't supported by the online CB. CBC WAS updated consistently, until they decided that it wouldn't be. Talking about how the new CB is going to be consistently updated is a non sequitur in this debate. It counts for nothing when it was something that I already had, that was taken away from me.

The online CB does not fulfil my needs, nor the functions for which I acquired my subscription. Shall we now talk about the functionality that has been lost?

You misunderstand my intentions- I wasn't trying to debate, just understand.

 

[Kronius]

For the record, I just deactivated my sub's autorenewal.

I have been there with the deactivation. I have gone monthly just for the very fact of taking it one step at a time, if I do not like it I ask for my money back. WotC has been very good at doing that.

I tell them there is no value in what I am getting and they preform the refund.

I am impatient but I am giving them some time to fix this. If we do not hear something this week that might be it for DDI. I will still buy product, but DDI will be out until I read about some improvments. That is IF we do not hear a word from WotC about anything CB related. I want fixes to the broken stuff.

If things start working I will get a gaming group account to use at my gaming table that they all pay for but WotC really needs to work on a group rate charge here. Not one of my players will pay for it by themselves.

They are players, what player gets an article in Dragon every month? What player is ever going to use Dungeon?

Change some of the pricing structure to factor in those players who just want Dragon or the CB. Right now I would not buy those mags off the magazine rack in the state they are currently in. They would deffinately be out of business right now if that was how the business was still running.

 

[Chzbro]

Shall we now talk about the functionality that has been lost?

There's no denying that the CB has lost some functionality. If that lost functionality causes the subscription to lose all value to you, then you absolutely should not pay for it. It is a shame, for example, that you personally can no longer use the CB as a living character sheet. In my case, I've never used it that way, and if I chose to, all the places I play have wireless, so our situations are not the same. I would be majorly upset if, like many have said, I needed to build characters regularly in areas with no or spotty Internet service. But I don't.

My group found workarounds for our CB problems. For one, we use house-ruled feats (like free expertise). While it's true we can't add these with the new builder, most feats don't actually mechanically affect the character sheet itself. For this reason, we just all add the expertise and other mechanically significant feats as "real" feats and type other feats into the Campaign Notes section. It's not ideal, but the end result is more or less identical in function to a house-ruled character. The only difference for us is that two feats are typed somewhere other than the "Feats" box.

Now I admit that at first this lost functionality really disappointed me. I was resigned to sticking with CBC. But now I just don't think it's a big deal. That's not an indictment against anyone who does, but for me personally, I don't mind the inconvenience to get the functionality I want.

***By the way (I posted this somewhere else, too), a member in our group discovered that the new CB can handle inherent bonuses; there's just no way to turn them on. If you create a blank character in the classic builder with the inherent bonus box clicked, you can import that file when you start a character in the new builder and go from there. The character in the Online CB will have inherent bonuses, and they will advance correctly as you level up.

I don't mention that as a "defense" of the new CB; I only do so in the hopes it might be useful to someone else.***

But the OP asked what he was missing about the "value of my DDI subscription." Lost functionality or no, I still consider DDI a good value. Am I happy that I don't get as much as I used to? Of course not, but sometimes that's the way it goes. I'm also not happy Netflix raised their prices or that the old movie theater close to my house hasn't lowered ticket prices to compensate for the once comfortable chairs that are now not so much so.

And unlike the movie theater, I have a realistic hope (I won't say expectation) that my DDI subscription will over time give me more value for my money as it improves.

Again, neither I nor anyone else in this thread has claimed that it's foolish to be unsatisfied with the current state of DDI. I just happen to think, even with the way it is right now, it's worth the money I pay for it. I certainly don't begrudge the Jester or anyone else for thinking the opposite.

 

[Scribble]

To keep with the same analogy, thing is after the 3rd spare bedroom you aren't actually going to be getting the same value. Sure your house is bigger, but you really only use the lounge, kitchen, bedroom and in our case games room, most of the time, and the rest of the house rarely gets used. The fact the house is bigger just makes it a pain to keep clean.

I can understand this as a personal preference.

Oh to expand on this:

If they say, stopped adding content every month, and went to an update content every 3 months or something structure, but improved the tools this would be more valuble for you?

I'm not saying the extra content doesn't have value, just it isn't that big a value. Twice the added content is not twice the added value, I doubt it's even half the added value. If the graph of content to value was drawn for me it has already levelled off.

Maybe it's just a preference thing again?

I don't know if this would pan out overall if you looked at say the months they missed the update... People got pretty angry about something that isn't that valuable.

Same with the possible missing content in the future...

Again- not saying one way or the other is "true" or anything... Just seems like it's more valuable when missing then when present.

Added content (in the shape of just new rules) doesn't add any more value to me, adding functionality and working tools that make my job as a DM easier, is the only way they can add value now. Unfortunately they have removed functionality and crippled the tools they had.

I can understand this again as a preference thing- from a personal perspective I somewhat agree.

I think they need to find a good balance, between tools and content.


I guess all of it just interests me... Like even if the tools aren't as useful as they were, and not as MUCH content is being offered monthly... The library has still grown exponentially compared to the price of the service...

I wonder how much outcry there would be if they had released the tools and they worked as well as the old tools, but raised the price of the DDI based on the amount of content?


And again- I want to stress this I'm not trying to debate anyone's personal sense of value, or whether they should buy DDI or not.

I'm just interested in this from an abstract point of view.

 

[Ryujin]

You misunderstand my intentions- I wasn't trying to debate, just understand.

All well and good then.

I forgot to respond to the point about Compendium. All the information in the world isn't worth anything, if the access method is unworkable.

 

[Scribble]

As a point of observation, I signed up for DDi when 4e first came out but when my OS crashed I lost the old CB. So in order to reinstall it I relied on a resourceful ENWorlder who found the exe file through Google Archives.
There was no mention of how to access the old CB on WotC website.

I re-installed it and found out that I couldn't get any updates through WotC.
So the old CB content is frozen around PHB2.

Basically, if I don't switch over to the new CB then I've lost information. While the analogy is not entirely the same, if this were physical data it would be a trade-in. Something like getting the Rules Compendium and 2 Essentials player's books but I'd have to give up my PHB. Sure there might be *more* information, but shouldn't a customer get to choose which they prefer, especially customers who signed up before the new CB?

This is kind of common though with software.

I bought a copy of quicken years ago. It lasted a long time, but after a while they stopped supporting it. None of the automatic account update stuff will function, nor will they provide any sort of tech support.


Aside from that- if you bought a physical book, and then lost it, would you expect the company you bought it from to replace it?

 

[renau1g]

I don't know if this would pan out overall if you looked at say the months they missed the update... People got pretty angry about something that isn't that valuable.

There's a big difference between the Dragon updates and missing the Dark Sun (their one Campaign launch in the year) and the Essentials material (their largest update of the year). Well, they got upset with the missed updates, the half-truths (or outright lies depending on who you talk to ), and the lack of communication...

 

[Scribble]

There's a big difference between the Dragon updates and missing the Dark Sun (their one Campaign launch in the year) and the Essentials material (their largest update of the year). Well, they got upset with the missed updates, the half-truths (or outright lies depending on who you talk to ), and the lack of communication...

So some new material is worth more then others you would say?

For instance new material released in Dragon/Dungeon is worth less to you then new material released in a new book?

If so- what would you say is the difference?

 

[renau1g]

1/year or so they've put out a major release (IMO)

PHBI
PHBII
PHBIII
the Essentials books

These are worth way more than a few new feats, or background benefits.

There are tons of new races and classes in these books. The only DDI class has been the Assassin...which has had awful, awful support, and the only race, Revenant (and a Gnoll expanded race) which wasn't bad.