I think we are mostly on the same page here (which is a good thing)!
PS: I am the EVIL DM of my group.
I like option 4 best. How about a test of wills to get the vehicle to acknowledge you as a pilot, at which point you have full control? Testing wills can only be done if you are in the pilot controls (which would be varied depending on type... at least in description... an odd tangle of roots or pod for a plant ship, a womb or mental tapping tenticle in an organic/aberation ship, a throne of bones in an undead ship...etc. The undead option is interesting because you could also by pass the battle of wills by using Rebuking/command checks or Control Undead-type spells.Wyvern said:Good questions. Here are my initial thoughts on the topic. I can think of three basic possibilities:
1) The vessel automatically overrides the pilot. (Not much fun for the pilot, especially if you've got an Evil GM.)
2) The pilot automatically overrides the vessel. (Maybe the best solution if you're talking about a computer AI or other intelligent construct, but it doesn't seem realistic in other cases.)
3) The pilot must succeed at a contested Will save to override the vessel. (I don't like this one much myself, but it is an option.)
4) The pilot must meet certain conditions in order to pilot the vessel at all, but if he does his control is absolute. In the case of undead or construct vessels, you might say that only the vessel's "creator" can control it, or that you need a special magic item (like a rod of dragon control). You could use the latter option with aberrations too. Perhaps there's a device that allows the pilot to "become one" with a living vessel. (This is the best option IMO because it allows so many different possibilities.)
PS: I am the EVIL DM of my group.
Easy: the more levels of engines you have (this is also true of the special components like derigibles and sails) the higher a crew ratting you have. For every crewman you don't have, the pilot takes a -1 penalty on all checks (generaly making it hard to even take off in drastic cases). These crewmen spend most of their time doing very NPC like things (profession skill NPC commoners in most cases) making them useful for leadership followers or paid sailors/etc but not a very PC-esc role. For every (say 5) engine levels you need an extra crewman beyond the pilot. Thus vehicles would quickly need lots of crew. One of the special components/level options would be Automated systems which simply reduce you number needed crewmen but might use up power etc. Thus advanced crafts might be almost all automated allowing only the NPCs to operate them. the number of extra people on board would also increase if you need extra gunners (catapults and ballistas generaly need crews of 3 or more... same with cannons, although more modern weapons or magic wepaons wouldn't) A good sized warship can have a large lifesupport draw very quickly.Wyvern said:(about Life support being not direclty tied to vehicle size) Good point. So, any thoughts about how this could be reflected in the rules?
I kind of like that. It might need some tweaking once we test build some crafts, but I do like simply chopping out the overly complicated lift, powered etc... I think your on the right track with this.Wyvern said:What I meant was that the number of "movement points" you get for one level in the Engines "class" could be determined by the baseline tech level. At its simplest, you could just say that you get (TL+1) movement points per level of Engines. (The "+1" is because the scale starts at TL 0: Stone Age.) The base cost of one level of Engines is a constant regardless of Tech Level, but you could upgrade your engines to a higher TL by paying more, or get a discount by downgrading them to a lower TL.
Using this system, you can then calculate a vehicle's speed without needing a table. First, add up the number of movement points allocated to forward motion ("speed points" hereafter). For each multiple of the vehicle's total hit dice, it moves 1 square (30 ft). Therefore, a 40-HD ship with up to 40 speed points would have a maximum speed of 30 ft; with 41-80 speed points, its speed would be 60 ft, and so on.
For maneuverability points, each multiple of the vehicle's hit dice above the first improves its manueverability by one class. So a 40-HD ship would have clumsy manueverability with 40 or fewer mp's; poor maneuverability with 41-80 mp's, etc..
On reflection, I don't think there's any need to bother with "lift points" and minumum speed. It may be more realisitic, but it's not any more fun. Just say that a vehicle must have Good or better manueverability or a dirigible in order to hover. (As a side note, I think a dirigible should double the vessel's effective hit dice for the purpose of determining maneuverability.)
Incidentally, a side effect of these rules is that you could never exceed the minumum speed of 30 ft using Stone Age engines. To go faster, you'd need magic (which would use a different formula to calculate speed points) or sails (which I'm presuming are treated as a separate type of component from engines).
Using Fuel to determine range is interesting, as its a dynamic that doesn't come into play with combat (using fuel in combat is too complicated and not all that fun) but would make for an easy way to limit range by DMs etc. You can't travel some place you don't have the range to reach, and major traffic lanes are determine by stops for fuel. Not bad.Wyvern said:The same type of rule could be applied to fuel and power as well (you might want to consider making these separate "classes"). For every level of Fuel you add, you gain (TL+1) units of fuel. The total fuel divided by the hit dice gives the vehicle's range in, say, hundreds of miles. As with engines, you could pay more to get high-grade fuel with an increased TL.
Now we are getting into a hazy area. One of the major ideas I had for handling power was that one of it most important uses is powering weapons an special systems (like sheilds). Doing so means using up charges. The vehicle's power system generates X charges/round (top of the inative order or on the pilot's turn: it's full) and every time a gunner fires a gun or an engineer reinforces sheilds etc. it lowers the number of charges for that round. This is at least the combat oriented use of power I was thinking of (this system has no bearings outside combat). I sort of figured that this covered the extra discretionary power a vehicle has over the top of basic system uses which are always on and thus not really needed for calculations. I also sort of figured that power and fuel should be a similar mechanical (game wise) systems... although having talked to you I'm starting to see that as not a needed connection.Wyvern said:Power would work on the same principle; the higher the TL, the more units of power you get per level. In this case, the size of the vessel doesn't matter; the power needs are determined by adding up the power consumption of individual components. (You could also have special components that allow you to convert fuel to power or vice versa.)