The Votary, a studious cleric PrC.

[Claudius Gaius]

I'd have to agree that this looks seriously overpowered. While its true that a lot of minor abilities don't necessarily add up to much, quite a few of these are hardly minor. Perhaps you might want to take out a level or two of spellcasting, cut back on the skill points, and give them a choice of special abilities instead of all of them.

 

[robjh]

Thanks for all of the useful feedback. I've made some changes in an effort to tone it down a little; reducing skills and some special abilities. In terms of comparison, I was looking somewhat at the Loremaster PrC, who gets spells, the same BaB, beaucoup special ability bonuses and good skills (from a likely high Int), although it doesn't have a turn ability. No I haven't seen the write-up for a Pelor PrC.

Does it look better now?

 

[Nifft]

Does it look better now?

Still needs to lose at least one level of spellcasting, possibly two.

Cheers, -- N

 

[avr]

I'm still wondering what the prohibition on murder means exactly.

The wording of some of the abilities seems unclear -

What type of action are the liturgies? (they seem to be based off bardic abilities, so maybe standard)

Is there any limit on how many times per day the liturgies can be used? (ditto, possibly 1/class level/day)

What type of bonus does the liturgy of exhortation give? (could be scary in some situations if it stacks with enhancement bonuses & righteous might - so enhancement?)

What stat does the aura of sanctuary use for its save DC? (probably WIS, but could be CHA)

If my guesses are right I'd say the class looks OK now for balance.

 

[robjh]

Still needs to lose at least one level of spellcasting, possibly two.

Cheers, -- N

Sorry I'll have to disagree; that would be overkill. To me this is about as potent now as the Loremaster. I think that if there are changes to be made, they would need to be tweaks to special abilities.

 

[robjh]

I'm still wondering what the prohibition on murder means exactly.

The wording of some of the abilities seems unclear -

What type of action are the liturgies? (they seem to be based off bardic abilities, so maybe standard)

Is there any limit on how many times per day the liturgies can be used? (ditto, possibly 1/class level/day)

What type of bonus does the liturgy of exhortation give? (could be scary in some situations if it stacks with enhancement bonuses & righteous might - so enhancement?)

What stat does the aura of sanctuary use for its save DC? (probably WIS, but could be CHA)

If my guesses are right I'd say the class looks OK now for balance.

I'll have to think about the murder issue. Probably something along the lines of killing a helpless individual. This is for a pacifistic deity.

Yes the liturgies are comparable to some bardic abilities. I didn't want to limit the usage per day since their maintenance does require some on-going actions by the character.

I'll say that the liturgy of exhortation probably gives a morale bonus. So its comparable to the +2 competence bonus on attack rolls from the bardic Inspire Greatness. Should I reduce the enhancements to +2 Str and +2 Dex? Or perhaps just the choice of +4 Str or +4 Dex?

The aura of sanctuary should use WIS, I think.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Nifft]

Sorry I'll have to disagree; that would be overkill. To me this is about as potent now as the Loremaster. I think that if there are changes to be made, they would need to be tweaks to special abilities.

Here's the difference: the Loremaster was balanced wrong.

It's based around the idea that many prerequisites can be used to pay for many benefits. And it's not terribly overpowered, but really the only "cost" is one feat thrown away.

None the less, here's what the Loremaster requires:

Skills
Knowledge (any two) 10 ranks in each.

Feats
Any three metamagic or item creation feats, plus Skill Focus (Knowledge [any individual Knowledge skill]).

Spells
Able to cast seven different divination spells, one of which must be 3rd level or higher.

What this means:

1/ Tough for Sorcerers (thanks to the skill and spellcasting requirements).

2/ One throw-away feat (Skill Focus).

3/ Can't take before character level 8.

- - -

Contrast this with your prereqs:

Alignment: Any Good.
Skills: Decipher Scripts 2 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast prayer as a divine spell.
Patron: Rhysael.
Special: The candidate can not have deliberately committed murder or a similarly heinous evil offense.

IMHO the idea that expensive prereqs balances many abilities is flawed.

However, your prereqs don't even cost much! The skills can be paid for fully at 1st level -- everything else is just "wait for 5th level" and flavor.

So if you're using the Loremaster as your model, you need to at least require 3-4 feats (one of which should be a throw-away feat, like Skill Focus: Heal), 10 ranks in two skills (Kn: Religion and Heal), and be a Cleric of whatever.

Cheers, -- N

 

[avr]

I think most of the remaining active special abilities of this PrC are considerably inferior to spells which a cleric of an equivalent level could and would cast. The exception is spontaneous casting of remove fear etc., but this seems fairly harmless to me. The save bonuses & skill points are more than paid for by the d6 HD, poor fort save and poor BAB - The Jesters' analysis is for an earlier version of the PrC. You could still do CoDzilla with it so long as you have Divine Power up, but a character with the PrC looks worse in this role without that going.

On the liturgy of exhortation - I'd avoid having another +4 strength bonus which could stack with anything. +2 str/+2 dex or something similar sounds better if so.

 

[Claudius Gaius]

Uhm - unless I'm missing something, it still gets full spellcasting progression, so it can and will cast the spells "which a cleric of an equivalent level could and would cast".

 

[Xulin]

First, I would remove the bonus feats and the reach spell power. This class is a contemplative, not an offensive spell master.
Second, I assume that the supernatural sanctuary effect has the same duration as the spell? You should be more clear on that.

Other than that, I don't see too many balance issues. The bonuses to saves are situational: one applies to mind affects, one to evil spells, and the last applies only to glyphs or runes. Most of the abilities of this class apply to supporting fellow party members and non-offensive affects. This class does what clerics can do anyway.