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The Wizard Archtype

Elf Witch

First Post
A wizard to me is someone who has studied magic and knows his lore he uses his brain not innate ability to wrestle with magic. Some examples are the wizard from Dragonslayer , Harry Dresden he reminds me of a lot of DnD wizards with his comments wizards are powerful when they have time to prepare and as we know Harry often does not have time. Raistlin is another wizard who fits the bill for me.

Merlin was never a wizard in my mind more a druid. That is how I picture him when I read the tons of Arthurian books I own.



I guess for me the term wizard, sorcerer, witch, mage are often interchangeable.
 

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Li Shenron

Legend
Being slightly flippant, what I associate with a wizard is someone who can use magic ... but doesn't. That statement isn't as flippant as it sounds.

Not flippant at all. It's quite true in fact... I have the same image in mind. A Wizard is someone who others fear without even the need to show what he can do.

Honestly, I find the best match between mythological wizards and D&D wizards to exist in the body of the 3.5 Bard. Sword wielding? Check. Skill beyond the mundane, especially with respect to persuasion? Perform (Oratory), fascinate. Avoids flashy magic and most of their magic is coincidental? Check. Or backs up their skill? Check. Loremasters with some divination? Check.

That's a very good point! Too bad that Bard class design typically had received less attention than it deserved.
 

That's a very good point! Too bad that Bard class design typically had received less attention than it deserved.

I mentioned the 3.5 Bard for a reason :) It's the iteration of the 2e/3e bards that has been given the attention and the subtle polishing it needs. (The 2e Bard is a way of getting a wizard that survives low levels as much as anything, and the 3.0 one was frightful. PF did the 3.5 Bard no favours at all with their tweaks - but the 3.5 iteration is an absolute gem of a class).
 

Ahnehnois

First Post
To me, a wizard is rather like the Star Trek engineer: someone who knows an absurd amount of information about how the universe works and can use that knowledge to accomplish almost anything, given time. The definitional quality of a wizard is knowledge. Wizards also tend to be single-minded, neglecting pursuits other than knowledge and being physically unimpressive and limited in their ability to accomplish things without magic.

D&D has at this point established the different types of magic strongly enough that I do make a distinction between wizardry, sorcery, witchcraft, and various other "flavors" of magic.

Neonchameleon said:
but the 3.5 iteration [of the bard] is an absolute gem of a class
:hmm: I thought if there was one thing everyone could agree on about the 3.5 classes, it was that bards suck.
 

:hmm: I thought if there was one thing everyone could agree on about the 3.5 classes, it was that bards suck.

Nope. Everyone agrees that 3.0 bards suck. Hard. And they agree that the bard is weaker than any other class in the PHB with full caster levels. But the class tier list puts the bard into tier 3 (and I could make a case that Glibness is enough to push them into tier 2). Tier 3 with lots of subtle internal synergies is IMO precisely where a class should be and I believe a lot of the 3.5 bard's reputation is a carry over from 3.0 and most of the tweaks being comparatively subtle. Oh, and Elan.
 

Argyle King

Legend
A wizard to me is someone who has studied magic and knows his lore he uses his brain not innate ability to wrestle with magic. Some examples are the wizard from Dragonslayer , Harry Dresden he reminds me of a lot of DnD wizards with his comments wizards are powerful when they have time to prepare and as we know Harry often does not have time. Raistlin is another wizard who fits the bill for me.

Merlin was never a wizard in my mind more a druid. That is how I picture him when I read the tons of Arthurian books I own.

I guess for me the term wizard, sorcerer, witch, mage are often interchangeable.

I quoted your post because it matches a lot of what I was going to say.

Dragonslayer is one of my favorite movies, so it's a big influence on how I view rpg adventures in general. I've only recently become familiar with Dresden, but he has a lot of traits which I associate with 'wizard.' Likewise, I view Raistlin as a wizard; the Dragonlance books are what introduced me to D&D.

I had never thought of Merlin as a druid, but I suppose that does make some amount of sense. Still, I do tend to view him as a wizard, but I also feel that he's above and beyond what lesser casters can do, but his downfall is that he's attached to a version of the world which is slowly being replaced.

Oddly, even though she was a big part of the stories I'm familiar with, Morgan le Fay is not someone I typically think about when thinking about my view of what a wizard is. For some reason, my mind just doesn't make that connection. One of her defining characteristics was being able to use magic, but I don't often think of her.

As a few others have said, I don't really view Gandalf as being a wizard either. To some extent I do in so much that he certainly fits some of the wizard stereotypes, but he's also pretty obviously more than just a simple man who knows magic. All things considered, I suppose maybe I do view Gandalf as a wizard, but I also recognize that there's something more to him than that.

In contrast to what I just said about Gandalf, I do view Jadis (The White Witch from The Chronicles of Narnia) when I think about spellcasters. I say "in contrast" because it is heavily implied that she's not fully human, but -for whatever reason- I easily view her as a caster. I'm not so sure I view her as a wizard, but the character of Jadis is a pretty big influence on me. I'm positive that I don't view her as a D&D wizard because her ability to fight in melee is far better than the D&D class would allow, but I do view her as a mage when it comes to rpgs in general. She's a big enough influence on me that I've pretty blatantly used her as the basis for a villain I had in a campaign I ran. I view her as embodying multiple archetypes - BBEG, persuasive villain, magic user, and a few others.

I'm a big fan of R. Howard's writing, so most of the Conan and Kull stories are an influence on me. Likewise, while they differ quite a bit from the original stories, the movies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger are an influence; in particular, Akiro the Wizard is someone I view as an archetypal wizard . The scene where Akiro and the enemy wizard are dueling over trying to keep a gate open/closed is a big part of how I view wizards. (While I did also enjoy the newer movie with Jason Mamoa, there really wasn't a lot in the vein of spellcasting which stuck out to me, but I will say the movie gave me a lot of ideas for encounters.)

While I wouldn't say I view him as a wizard per se, Morgan -the main character from The Riddle Master Trilogy- has some influence on how I view magic and going on adventures in general, and the part of the book where he learns he can control fire is something that sticks with me. Likewise, as a child I read The Chronicles of Prydain, and that book series has an influence as well. I suppose I read a lot of fantasy books that were influences on me, but it's been so long that I don't remember what a lot of them were. The Last Unicorn comes to mind, but I don't think that is something I remember as an influence on how I view wizards; it's just something I remember reading.

Somewhere among all of the things I experienced during my younger years, I'd also say the older Final Fantasy games had some amount of influence on me as far as the idea that magic could be divided into colors and that mages often wore funny hats. In general, I would say some of the old NES rpgs were among the biggest influences on me when it comes to how I view rpgs, and I'd go so far to say that I may not have ever played tabletop games had I not become interested in games such as Dragon Warrior, The Bard's Tale, and various others. To varying extents, those games had some influence on how I originally viewed what many elements of an adventure should look like. My views have evolved a lot since then, but those were part of my roots. I credit NES rpgs, choose your own adventure books, and Dragonlance with leading me to tabletop gaming.
 

Elf Witch

First Post
I quoted your post because it matches a lot of what I was going to say.

Dragonslayer is one of my favorite movies, so it's a big influence on how I view rpg adventures in general. I've only recently become familiar with Dresden, but he has a lot of traits which I associate with 'wizard.' Likewise, I view Raistlin as a wizard; the Dragonlance books are what introduced me to D&D.

I had never thought of Merlin as a druid, but I suppose that does make some amount of sense. Still, I do tend to view him as a wizard, but I also feel that he's above and beyond what lesser casters can do, but his downfall is that he's attached to a version of the world which is slowly being replaced.

Oddly, even though she was a big part of the stories I'm familiar with, Morgan le Fay is not someone I typically think about when thinking about my view of what a wizard is. For some reason, my mind just doesn't make that connection. One of her defining characteristics was being able to use magic, but I don't often think of her.

As a few others have said, I don't really view Gandalf as being a wizard either. To some extent I do in so much that he certainly fits some of the wizard stereotypes, but he's also pretty obviously more than just a simple man who knows magic. All things considered, I suppose maybe I do view Gandalf as a wizard, but I also recognize that there's something more to him than that.

In contrast to what I just said about Gandalf, I do view Jadis (The White Witch from The Chronicles of Narnia) when I think about spellcasters. I say "in contrast" because it is heavily implied that she's not fully human, but -for whatever reason- I easily view her as a caster. I'm not so sure I view her as a wizard, but the character of Jadis is a pretty big influence on me. I'm positive that I don't view her as a D&D wizard because her ability to fight in melee is far better than the D&D class would allow, but I do view her as a mage when it comes to rpgs in general. She's a big enough influence on me that I've pretty blatantly used her as the basis for a villain I had in a campaign I ran. I view her as embodying multiple archetypes - BBEG, persuasive villain, magic user, and a few others.

I'm a big fan of R. Howard's writing, so most of the Conan and Kull stories are an influence on me. Likewise, while they differ quite a bit from the original stories, the movies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger are an influence; in particular, Akiro the Wizard is someone I view as an archetypal wizard . The scene where Akiro and the enemy wizard are dueling over trying to keep a gate open/closed is a big part of how I view wizards. (While I did also enjoy the newer movie with Jason Mamoa, there really wasn't a lot in the vein of spellcasting which stuck out to me, but I will say the movie gave me a lot of ideas for encounters.)

While I wouldn't say I view him as a wizard per se, Morgan -the main character from The Riddle Master Trilogy- has some influence on how I view magic and going on adventures in general, and the part of the book where he learns he can control fire is something that sticks with me. Likewise, as a child I read The Chronicles of Prydain, and that book series has an influence as well. I suppose I read a lot of fantasy books that were influences on me, but it's been so long that I don't remember what a lot of them were. The Last Unicorn comes to mind, but I don't think that is something I remember as an influence on how I view wizards; it's just something I remember reading.

Somewhere among all of the things I experienced during my younger years, I'd also say the older Final Fantasy games had some amount of influence on me as far as the idea that magic could be divided into colors and that mages often wore funny hats. In general, I would say some of the old NES rpgs were among the biggest influences on me when it comes to how I view rpgs, and I'd go so far to say that I may not have ever played tabletop games had I not become interested in games such as Dragon Warrior, The Bard's Tale, and various others. To varying extents, those games had some influence on how I originally viewed what many elements of an adventure should look like. My views have evolved a lot since then, but those were part of my roots. I credit NES rpgs, choose your own adventure books, and Dragonlance with leading me to tabletop gaming.

About the time I was getting into Arthurian stories I was also reading a lot about the druids and other myths of Great Britain and it seemed to me that Merlin was either a druid or a great bard. Morgana La Fey would be what I consider either a, shaman of the old religion, sorcerer or a witch. I did not start with TH White my first Arthurian story was The Crystal Cave by Mary Stewart followed by the Idylls of the Queen by Phyllis A Karr and then the The Pendragon Cycle by Stephen R Lawhead in that series Merlin is the son of Taliesin the great druid bard and is a druid priest himself. I never pictured Merlin as seen in lot of fiction as a pointy hat robe wearing wizard.

Gandalf has never been a typical wizard either to me because he not human but more an demi god or an angel.

I started playing DnD about the time I started reading SF and Fantasy do the DnD wizard has always been what I consider a wizard. So I have never had the issues that some other have had with it.
 


Remathilis

Legend
Its almost recursion, but I began in RPGs via Final Fantasy. As such, I accepted the black mage concept of wizards (cloth armor, staves, whips and daggers, magic mostly based on attack and debuff; primarily elemental-based like fire, ice, and lightning.) It was a little different with clerics (which were white mages in FF) due to the fact WM are also weak combatants (light armor, staves, hammers [a nod to D&D] and later bows) and had mostly healing and holy magic. So moving to D&D from FF was easy since I was already primed to physically weak mages (though the warrior-priest cleric required some rethinking).

I did read some fiction and games prior to FF, but most of the time magic used by the protagonists who were not dedicated to "wizards". FF is the first exposure I had to a dedicated user of magic.
 

Klaus

First Post
Characters that don't perform much "on screen" magic, but show inordinate knowledge of events/intuition/mental acuity, such as:
- Gandalf (Hobbit, LotR)
- Merlin (Excalibur)

Characters that perform minor magics constantly, and also cast major magic "on screen", such as:
- Ulrich, the last sorceror, in the movie "Dragonslayer", and his apprentice Galen
- Harry Potter and his crew
 

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