The WoD and DnD

[Katerek]

I wonder how portable some of the concepts from White Wolfs World of Darkness setting would be into a DnD style d20 setting?

I have actually played both games. I enjoyed them both. I am a game snob, so of course the people that play BOTH games that aren't in my gaming group are dorks. (joke)

In all seriousness though, I would probably by a book of templates that had a different Vampire and Lycanthrope Template based on the info in all of the WoD books.

Im not to sure how Wraith or Changeling work but they might be cool to rob ideas from as well.

And well Demon: the Fallen should be an interesting source as well, especially for anyone playing a Sacred Exorcist. I wonder if Angel: the Risen is too far behind?

Anybody ever tried anything like this?

Are there any foreseen complications?

What do you guys think?

 

[Synicism]

Ugh. They tried WW conversions with GURPS before. GURPS is a much more malleable system than d20 and it destroyed the compatibility between the various games because of the vastly different point requirements needed to play a vampire, werewolf, or mage.

The problem is that the Storyteller system is based on the premise that your character can develop along any number of paths, rather than one set "class." Just because, for example, my vampire is a scheming Tremere (read Wizard) doesn't stop me from very easily taking 5 levels of Melee and being a Heidelburg-trained master fencer at character creation and being a much more skilled combatant than my Brujah street-thug compantion (read Fighter or Barbarian).

The WoD games also separate your character's mundane abilities from his supernatural ones, while d20 integrates them all into its class structure.

The best thing you could do for vampires, werewolves, and wraiths would be to create "Disciplines," "Gifts," and "Arcanoi" that you spent Experience Points to acquire (like Prestige Races out of Oathbound or Fantasy Flight's Fighting Schools) that remained independent of your class and race. You could conceivably do the same thing with mages' Spheres and changelings' Arts and Realms, but it would need a little more finesse.

Still, if you play both games, why bother trying to fit WoD's square peg into d20's round hole?

 

[Zappo]

Repost from the Demon: the Fallen thread

The Storyteller system converts poorly to D20 and vice-versa. To do it properly, you'd have to remake it from scratch, and it's too much hassle for something you wouldn't be able to sell.

(IMO, that's because ST has a fine granularity right where D20 has a broad granularity (ST's XP versus D20's levels), and ST has a broad granularity right where D20 has a fine granularity (ST's 1-to-5 traits and 4-to-9 difficulties versus D20's 1+ stats and 5+ difficulties). As always in these cases, like when you convert between widely different sound formats without proper precautions, the result will likely incorporate most flaws of both systems and few of the merits)

 

[Voadam]

Many of the CONCEPTS work well. Templates where you can choose abilities are great IMO, check out the Ravenloft core book for some examples (though still not as much choice as WoD). The philosophies behind some of the magic theories in MtA work well and I have used them in D&D games since before 3e.

I think divorcing the class and race concepts works well, with perhaps prcs for the vamps and werewolves which grant clan disciplines or the xp for powers models suggested above. Perhaps a base vampire template based on clan and generation to start then the option for prcs based on clan, vamp in general, or disciplines for xp would work well (you can even get in the difference in xp costs for clan and nonclan powers here).

the idea of hidden vamps is easily insertable into any campaign, you just need to keep an eye on the mechanics (do they need permission to enter, do they have a reflection, etc.) The WWtA cosmology is also easy to create a D&D world around as a flavor base. (lots of evil spirits and a dragon behind the scenes cosmologically). Would probably want to pick up a d20 shaman book for them, however.

 

[Katerek]

Thank you voadam,

You hit more upon what I was going for.

I dont want to make money at anything like this. I want someone else to create it so that I can steal it! Or buy it if need be.

I was thinking Clan Templates that can only be taken by intelligent beings that have already had the Vampire template added to them mostly.

 

[Zappo]

I dont want to make money at anything like this. I want someone else to create it so that I can steal it! Or buy it if need be.

Yeah, that's exactly my position too.

 

[Voadam]

Well if you want a direct conversion d20 product, that can only come from WW, and while they have a lot of d20 D&D material through SSS I don't think they have any interest in doing a direct conversion manual.

The style of them though, templates with choice powers and more chosen powers as you go along, some general some clan/tribe/tradition specific could be done and be published and I would like to see that done. You just would not get protean one two three or ventrue clan vamps labelled as such. It would be the flexible and individualized feel of the mechanics without the WoD atmosphere, specifics, or names.

 

[arwink]

I tend to steal from it in bits and peices rather than whole-cloth. Vampire clans without the powers are just personalities for vampires, the lupin make a pretty cool basis for natural lycanthropes as druidic allies, and Changling is pretty much responsible for the way I write fey creatures.

The concepts convert okay, but the game mechanics would give me a headache.

 

[John Smallberries]

I think it works better if you correspond Clans/Tribes/Foo into Races rather than Classes.

Just because, for example, my vampire is a scheming Tremere (read Wizard) doesn't stop me from very easily taking 5 levels of Melee and being a Heidelburg-trained master fencer at character creation and being a much more skilled combatant than my Brujah street-thug compantion (read Fighter or Barbarian).

Instead of "Wizard" and "Fighter", think "Elf" and "Half-Orc".

I imagine it would then be possible to create some d20 Modern-style Classes that would alolow you to customize your character while still fitting the theme.