D&D 5E Theatre of the Mind - How Are You Handling Spell Effects?

[bruceparis]

I'm about to start planning to play my first 5th Edition game (LMoP - Starter Set). I want to play it Theatre of the Mind. I'm looking for DMing advice on how to handle area spell effects. For example, Player A casts Sleep on the goblins. How do you determine how many goblins get affected? And which ones? I was just thinking of rolling 1d2 for each goblin. If it came up a one (1), they found themselves in the area of effect - if they rolled a two (2), then they lucked out and weren't in range. This could slow down the game, however in the long haul. My players are very "tactically minded", so I don't think a "hand wave" by me will be sufficient.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Bruce

 

[KidSnide]

I'm about to start planning to play my first 5th Edition game (LMoP - Starter Set). I want to play it Theatre of the Mind. I'm looking for DMing advice on how to handle area spell effects. For example, Player A casts Sleep on the goblins. How do you determine how many goblins get affected? And which ones? I was just thinking of rolling 1d2 for each goblin. If it came up a one (1), they found themselves in the area of effect - if they rolled a two (2), then they lucked out and weren't in range. This could slow down the game, however in the long haul. My players are very "tactically minded", so I don't think a "hand wave" by me will be sufficient.

First, consider whether TotM is the best way to run combats with tactically minded players. I prefer TotM to battlemaps, but that's because I don't like spending time waiting for my players to count squares or figure out which one is better. If your players do that quickly and efficiently, TotM has less benefit.

That being said, you have two major options. One is to have a "rough battlemap" that describes the relative position of the characters without worrying too much about scale. If a character wants to AoE on an cluster of targets, you let any plausible arrangement work.

The second option is just to be generous and offer interesting choices. If the bad guys attacked from the front, they let the PCs get them all. If the bad guys are surrounding the PCs, then let an AoE affect a good chunk of the bad guys. I would also offer choices about whether you are willing to include the PCs to get more bad guy targets. You might say: you can get two goblins playing it safe, a third if you're willing to put the fighter in the AoE or all the goblins if you're willing to ground zero the sleep spell in the middle of the party.

Either way, "saying yes" is the key technique of TotM. If the player wants to perform a maneuver or AoE trick that sounds plausible, then let it work. If the scheme doesn't really match the situation, but is cool and isn't totally implausible, let the character roll an athletics check (for a physical maneuver) or a spellcasting stat check (for a magical manipulation) to see if they can pull it off.

-KS

 

[Balesir]

Purely as an addendum to what KidSnide said, you might check out the 13th Age game if you can get to browse a copy - or even buy one, if you like what you see. 13th Age is build from the ground up to handle TotM play, and has scads of good tips and ideas/systems for doing so. Going through 5E annotating each spell with "1d4 targets nearby" or "1d3 unengaged creatures far away or nearby" might be too much of a chore, but you can always hope that WotC put out a "Theatre of the Mind Expansion" that does it for you, sometime.

 

[Tovec]

While a grid may provide a straight answer like, "I am for this square so I can hit these goblins," I've always run TotM a bit differently. Usually along the lines of, "can I hit X with my sleep spell?" It is usually a yes barring some form of interference. Beyond that, the line might be, "I place the spell to affect as many goblins as possible," in which case I would rule how many there are based on positioning. Aiming for the largest group is fine, how many in that group? Aiming for specific ones, it is unlikely to splash onto unintentional targets. So, I think it is just a matter of not aiming for the square but instead aiming for "theatre space" so telling the DM what you are aiming for instead of which square you are aiming for. I want to catch as many goblins at once may result in the first batch in a group being taken out and then move on.

It is harder to define what I mean with the sleep spell, so fireballs and lightning bolts are my go to.

I want to lightning bolt that leader?
Okay, you can also catch X number of people in between including Y allies.
In that case can I angle it to avoid the allies?
Sure but you'll miss Z mooks, or, hit all the mooks (all X of them) but miss the leader.
I really want to hit the leader and avoid my allies.
Alright, roll damage while I roll reflex saves.

Substitute other area affect spells as needed.

You only have to make sure everyone is on board with what is being visualized. It isn't really too hard, just might require some back and forth but grids have the same problem with similar spells. And as the DM you don't have to worry about every single goblin being tagged unless you want them to be - that's a lot of freedom to work with.

 

[Thaumaturge]

You only have to make sure everyone is on board with what is being visualized. It isn't really too hard, just might require some back and forth but grids have the same problem with similar spells. And as the DM you don't have to worry about every single goblin being tagged unless you want them to be - that's a lot of freedom to work with.

This is good. And it's not hopeless. One of my players has only played 3e and 4th. He's very tactically minded. Last night, we had a number fights building to the climax of the adventure. Someone would ask me "how many guys can I get in a thunderwave", I would answer, and I would catch the tactical guy nodding his head in agreement. He could see the battle in his mind.

That said, sometimes there'll be disagreements. Especially as players adjust to it. Do you best to err in their favor. If you nitpick them, they'll want a mat to make things seem fair.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Tovec]

That said, sometimes there'll be disagreements. Especially as players adjust to it. Do you best to err in their favor. If you nitpick them, they'll want a mat to make things seem fair.

It might be better to err in their favour... as they're adjusting to it. But in general I haven't found it necessary. We might have disagreements (we're only human after all) about how something is arranged but I don't try to nitpick or fight them on it. What I gave with the XYZ was more or less how I've run it - almost exclusively with 3.5 and PF games - and rare really had an issue. Usually it won't even get that far. Player wants to shoot that lightning bolt and hit the leader and hit as many enemies as possible, I tell him he's going to hit allies, he understands and accepts, and we move on. If he wants to avoid them then there is another calibration involved with him moving or readjusting but in most of the time I've found this works better than a grid because with a grid you have to be more precise. You draw a line and count the squares affected. With TotM I can run things better, say what's in and what's out and have everyone on the same page in a fraction of the time it would take to measure squares.

This is actually become a problem of mine, I'll remember when spells are touch/personal vs. ranged attacks in 3.5 but most of the time I don't ever know the close/medium/long scale because I just run with whatever makes sense at the time. "No you can reach him from this distance. What? It doesn't matter if the spell says it works at 400 feet and this is only 200, you can't reach him." Often that is it. Works fairly well. Sometimes it requires me to say "there is something in the way" but that is rarely an issue. The flip side is also true; that I'll let the close range spells work at longer distances because those distances don't matter to me. Either it is ranged or touch after that I couldn't care less.

I find using a grid to be a bog, necessary when I have a LOT of characters on the field, but otherwise I try to avoid it at all costs where I can.

 

[Remathilis]

During my test run game, that came up: the group was attacked by 4 goblins and the wizard cast sleep about two rounds in. I ruled the goblins jumped out (since they didn't get surprise) 30 ft away (or a move for most PCs) and with a 30' radius of one another, meaning one goblin wasn't getting hit with the sleep no matter how many hp got rolled. It worked out that one goblin was dead anyway, and one had disengaged/dashed (yay goblins) 60 feet away and was clearly out of range, so only two legal targets were available. Still, the player asked and didn't question when I initially ruled 3/4 are viable, and that's the give/take of TotM.

 

[mips42]

Speaking solely for myself, I would encourage players to describe their actions and what their spells look like or feel like as long it doesn't change the effect of the spell).
As far as who gets affected, I think you need to have a decent idea in your head of where the monsters are in relation to the characters, ask the player who or where they're targeting and go from there. If there's a difference of opinion, clarify and err on the side of caution. (I thought this guy was here and that guy was next to him. No, the second guy is actually about 10 feet away but, if you hit, you can get a reduced effect) Etc.
You, as the gm, can encourage your players to do cool things by saying Yes. ("You want to try and run, jump over a table, push off of a wall and try a flying tackle on that orc? COOL! Here's how to do that...")

 

[Dragongrief]

Another thing to think about is "keywords" - natural language that helps envision the scene and can convey tactical information. So describing the goblins as a tightly formed group (within 5') or a loose group (10' apart) would give the players an image of what's coming at them, and give you a useful measure of how many can reasonably be targeted.

 

[bruceparis]

Wow! Thanks so much for the great feedback and ideas! I few things to take away:

* I actually bought a PDF copy of 13th Age, but I still haven't read it yet. Now I have an excuse!

* I like the idea of saying "Yes" more often. I have no problem with that. I enjoy "cinematic" game play (and so do my players).

* I like the idea of getting my players to describe what they want their spells to do, and where they want to focus them (or upon whom they want to focus). I can also see that I will need to help them by being more descriptive of my battleground. I think if they can do that, I can work out "how many" enemies are affected (and if any party members might be in the way).

* I also think I may need to resign myself to playing a "hybrid game" - maybe 70% TotM, and 30% battlemat (brought out for boss fights or more difficult battlefields with lots of terrain features). I don't have a problem with that.

Thanks so much for the ideas so far. I'm sure I'm not the only person wondering about TotM play in 5E D&D. I'll keep monitoring the thead in case more folks chime in!

Cheers,

Bruce
(Cairns, Australia)