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<blockquote data-quote="RealAlHazred" data-source="post: 6748681" data-attributes="member: 25818"><p><strong>Originally posted by Hellcow:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe yes, maybe no. Taer Doresh was a bridge between Dal Quor and Thelanis, and may well have symbolized the link between dream and story. In <em>The Fading Dream</em>, Cadrel relates a story that says that elves don't sleep because they are ashamed of abandoning Taer Doresh to its fate, and thus cannot bear to go to Dal Quor. This is just a story, loosely inspired by Kipling's Just So stories... on the other hand, as Thelanis is the plane of stories, that's more relevant than it would be elsewhere. </p><p></p><p>With that said, it's worth noting that very few native planar inhabitants sleep. Eberron is a planar crossroads, and the mortals of Eberron are touched and influenced by all the planes; when they sleep, they are drawn across that connection to Dal Quor. Angels, fiends, and the like are creatures of a single plane, with no innate connection to Dal Quor. </p><p></p><p>Looking back to the underlying philosophical difference between Dal Quor and Thelanis... One could make the argument that stories are consciously shaped and told, while dreams are the stories of the subconscious. Even if a story existed before you tell it, you can decide what spin to put on it; lucid dreamers aside, you can't choose your dream. Furthermore, while stories change and evolve, they tend to do so in a logical way... while the logic of dreams can completely shift from moment to moment. Thus there are similarities between them, certainly, but Dal Quor is a wilder and less predictable place. It's more about raw primal forces and emotions, whereas Thelanis is a little more... refined and defined. Of course, this speaks to the heart of Dal Quor; on the borders you have the areas that are entirely shaped by the minds of mortals, which can be very concretely defined... but which may not last for long at all. Dreams are innately fleeting things, whereas a good story can last forever. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I will note that the decision that 4E elves sleep really bothered me... The fact that elves don't sleep plays a role in the <em>Dreaming Dark </em>novels, and is why Xu'sasar can't join the rest of the party in Dal Quor. It's the same sort of thing as the 3E to 3.5E change that afflicted lycanthropes can't pass on the affliction, which undermines the entire foundation of the Lycanthropic Purge; it SEEMS like a trivial change, unless you have a story that's grounded on that one particular detail.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Hellcow:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They survived the Turning of the Age, but that doesn't mean that they weren't affected and transformed by it. It could be that prior to the turn, they remained fey of Taer Doresh - trapped in Dal Quor, but still true to what they once were. The Turn of the Age ushered in the nightmare reign of il-Lashtavar, and I think it's fair to think that it was this that turned Taer Doresh into Taer <em>Lian</em> Doresh, the fortress of <em>fading</em> dreams. Once they made dreams come true; now they are nightmares. </p><p></p><p>Of course, one wacky thing to explore would be the idea that the fey of Taer Doresh worked closely with the Quori of the previous age and were one of the motive forces that drove the war between the Quori-Giant war. If so, it clearly didn't work out so well for them - they remain trapped and fading - but it could be that they are in part responsible FOR the last Turn. </p><p></p><p>Which of course means that if the Kalashtar are correct and the next age is one of light, perhaps il-Yannah woud actually heal the wounds of the Fading Dream...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RealAlHazred, post: 6748681, member: 25818"] [b]Originally posted by Hellcow:[/b] Maybe yes, maybe no. Taer Doresh was a bridge between Dal Quor and Thelanis, and may well have symbolized the link between dream and story. In [i]The Fading Dream[/i], Cadrel relates a story that says that elves don't sleep because they are ashamed of abandoning Taer Doresh to its fate, and thus cannot bear to go to Dal Quor. This is just a story, loosely inspired by Kipling's Just So stories... on the other hand, as Thelanis is the plane of stories, that's more relevant than it would be elsewhere. With that said, it's worth noting that very few native planar inhabitants sleep. Eberron is a planar crossroads, and the mortals of Eberron are touched and influenced by all the planes; when they sleep, they are drawn across that connection to Dal Quor. Angels, fiends, and the like are creatures of a single plane, with no innate connection to Dal Quor. Looking back to the underlying philosophical difference between Dal Quor and Thelanis... One could make the argument that stories are consciously shaped and told, while dreams are the stories of the subconscious. Even if a story existed before you tell it, you can decide what spin to put on it; lucid dreamers aside, you can't choose your dream. Furthermore, while stories change and evolve, they tend to do so in a logical way... while the logic of dreams can completely shift from moment to moment. Thus there are similarities between them, certainly, but Dal Quor is a wilder and less predictable place. It's more about raw primal forces and emotions, whereas Thelanis is a little more... refined and defined. Of course, this speaks to the heart of Dal Quor; on the borders you have the areas that are entirely shaped by the minds of mortals, which can be very concretely defined... but which may not last for long at all. Dreams are innately fleeting things, whereas a good story can last forever. I will note that the decision that 4E elves sleep really bothered me... [i][/i]The fact that elves don't sleep plays a role in the [i]Dreaming Dark [/i]novels, and is why Xu'sasar can't join the rest of the party in Dal Quor. It's the same sort of thing as the 3E to 3.5E change that afflicted lycanthropes can't pass on the affliction, which undermines the entire foundation of the Lycanthropic Purge; it SEEMS like a trivial change, unless you have a story that's grounded on that one particular detail. [b]Originally posted by Hellcow:[/b] They survived the Turning of the Age, but that doesn't mean that they weren't affected and transformed by it. It could be that prior to the turn, they remained fey of Taer Doresh - trapped in Dal Quor, but still true to what they once were. The Turn of the Age ushered in the nightmare reign of il-Lashtavar, and I think it's fair to think that it was this that turned Taer Doresh into Taer [i]Lian[/i] Doresh, the fortress of [i]fading[/i] dreams. Once they made dreams come true; now they are nightmares. Of course, one wacky thing to explore would be the idea that the fey of Taer Doresh worked closely with the Quori of the previous age and were one of the motive forces that drove the war between the Quori-Giant war. If so, it clearly didn't work out so well for them - they remain trapped and fading - but it could be that they are in part responsible FOR the last Turn. Which of course means that if the Kalashtar are correct and the next age is one of light, perhaps il-Yannah woud actually heal the wounds of the Fading Dream... [/QUOTE]
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