There and Back Again, or trying to remember what was cool before Essentials came out

[Prestidigitalis]

For various reasons, I have been very much caught up in the Essentials builds since they came out. I like the simplicity and flexibility of Essentials characters, and love the way that many of them (Thief, Scout, Slayer) emphasize movement.

But I got thinking last night about one of my old pre-Essentials favorites -- the Barbarian. So this morning I have been playing around in Character Builder, looking at the options. Then out of the blue, something struck me...

Holy cow! A Barbarian with Pressing Strike, several rages with push or prone effects, Draconic Arrogance and the Iron Vanguard PP could be brutal! Is there a good build out there that I can gawk at for a while before I go back to real life?

 

[Windjammer]

Pressing Strike

I'm playing a Barbarian right now and having a blast. It's easily one of my favourite 4E classes. Only problem is, before you hit level 5 you only got 1 daily, which means you only rage 1/day... but when you do, boy... the whole encounter goes very, very differently... for everyone. That apart, there are so many goodies for the barbarian right out of the gate - e.g. that encounter power where he causes -2 to ALL defenses to ALL enemies in burst 5 for 1 round ... very nice controller'esque add on.

Regardless which at-will you pick, imagine having an Essentials Druid in the party who uses his first level daily "Shillega" on your hammer (or war axe, or whatever). That way your barbarian's weapon is enchanted for an entire encounter, and on every hit (1/round) "the target of the attack also takes 2 force damage and falls prone". That's awesome! Great teamplay effect, one of many.

 

[Riastlin]

Honestly, I haven't been using much essentials and have really loved most everything with the "classic" 4ed. Of course, the essentials that I have seen has also been pretty good.

I think the favorite teamwork technique that I've seen first hand was the sorceror who took the feat to boost his defense against OA's and would then dance around the fighter's mark until it attacked.

The Barb is also fun for a variety of reasons and I'm actually considering MC'ing my runepriest into Barbarian for some fun power swaps (particularly since I'm one of the bigger damage dealers in the party).

 

[Herschel]

IMO Essentials sucks yesterday's corn. It sucked a lot of the fun out of characters for me, especially since I've gone away from Fighter/Ranger/Wizard/Cleric in 4E character choices. I see the prupose behind it, they're just generally not the classes for me.

 

[the Jester]

I love both Essentials and "classic" 4e classes, but dm rather than play, so my opinion is based strictly on reading and watching players at work rather than actually playing pcs.

That said, we just added a player to my game who hadn't played since very early 3.0. She joined us at 11th level, and when we got together to make her character, she decided to be a paladin, classic-style, and DAMN was she effective in our first session with her- her sanction probably did more damage than any other single thing in the game. (Then again, they were fighting trolls, who aren't afraid of taking damage- they're in P1.)

So: Classic paladins rock. Warlords are teh awesome; ever since 1e I've loved the smart fighter who is very tactical and helps direct forces. 4e barbarians are insanely fun as long as your definition of fun includes taking tons of damage. Ummm... oh, and dragonborn! At first, I was doubtful about them and only allowed a player to run one reluctantly, but now I love them.

 

[Erren]

I'm mainly a DM, and my campaign is wrapping up here in another month. The group was 90% people who'd never played D&D before at all, and Essentials had just launched, so I ran with it. It's worked really well for them, especially since the majority of them don't think about D&D outside the 3 hours a week they're at my house playing.

I can't wait for this campaign to be over so I can go back to pre-essentials PCs though. I may just be the DM, but most of the Essentials classes bore me to tears. I suppose that's compounded by me limiting them to feats and powers that are in HotFK and HotFL, but giving them longer lists of feats wouldn't work very well for them (I offered and they declined anyways). Next campaign I'm grabbing some people who're more interested in the game outside of play sessions and have multiple different campaign directions I'm still tossing around in my head.

First though, I want to introduce my current group to Tomb of the Iron Lich. Just to mess with them.

 

[bganon]

It's kind of a mix of new and old, but...

I've been playing around with a drow PHB Cleric that uses a bunch of the powers from Heroes of Shadow, and basically fluff all her powers as sucking life-force from enemies and redirecting it to heal allies. I don't think it's even the most effective build, but somehow the mashup of ranged debuff/control and no-attack-roll-melee just tickles me to death. It seems a lot more fun to me than the pure Warpriest build, which I find slightly dull.

Also, pretty much anything Dark Sun. There's a Mul Harrier Battlemind that I can't wait to test in the arena.

 

[BobTheNob]

IMO essentials rocks. To me essentials feels like how they should have designed 4e if they had the gift of hindsight when first conceiving.

As to he whole "not as interesting" argument...go ask our parties hunter, who had to get a creature off a gate mechanism it was destroying, so he clever shotted it off then immobilized it so it couldnt get back to it. Yes, the hunter doesnt have a gazillion powers to choose from, but it you are good at playing characters at run time, you dont need them.

Ask our Slayer, who charged with accuracy stance active, used power strike and pushed away opposition, and the cool thing was that was like an encounter power which he put together on the fly, rather than "One he prepared earlier".

I actually think essentials classes are cool because, when played well, they dont NEED lots of encounter powers to choose from at design time. They are like a meal which you prepare 5 seconds before eating, rather than one you prepare one day and eat the next.

Yes, Im sure you can create PHB1&2 classes which will put essentials to shame. What that proves is that they have had more source material to draw from, not that they are better, and the whole AEDU "lets try to bring all classes under one mechanic" bit...I prefer the distinguishment between classes that essentials brings. By epic, our PHB1 characters really all felt the same, the only difference was some had implements where other had weapons, which was really deflating after 2.5 years of investment in them.

Everyone is entitled to their own position, but personally, complete essentials convert here.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I wasn't trying to start a discussion about Essentials vs pre-Essentials -- I was just marvelling about how much fun it can be to go back and rediscover old favorites.

But here I am thinking about going back to a pre- build, and I still haven't tried out the Warpriest, Scout or Hunter. So many options, so little time to game...

 

[Wednesday Boy]

I think the favorite teamwork technique that I've seen first hand was the sorceror who took the feat to boost his defense against OA's and would then dance around the fighter's mark until it attacked.

That was one of my favorite tactics to use with my Artful Dodger Halfling in the party with a Fighter and Paladin. Unfortunately the GM didn't like it and often wouldn't trigger the mark. Frowny face.

So many options, so little time to game...

Ain't that the truth! There are about 10 classes I want to give a try and I know I won't get through a third of them before another edition comes out!