D&D 5E Things That Make a DM Say "Whoa?!?!"

[Dionysos]

Wow, that's pretty brutal. I can't look at my PHB right now -- were there any changes from the alpha (if you have access to both)?

I think it was intended to take effect right away and not be cured for at least three rounds, as written. The problem for legendary monsters is that they can't avoid the whole thing up front since the initial effect is based on an attack roll rather than a save.

If it hasn't changed from the alpha, that's the strongest debuff I've seen in the game so far, and as a 4th-level Cleric/Druid spell.

It is a level 5 spell now. I don't have access to the alpha at the moment.

To be clear, my belief that the intent is for the target to need to fail three saves before being affected is based on balance considerations and not the verbiage of the spell. As written, it seems clear that it takes effect right away.

But, compare it to Hold Monster, another level 5 single target debuff. HM is a concentration spell, it allows extra saves every round to shake off, and it allows a save right at the beginning to resist it entirely. Contagion does not require concentration, lands with a melee spell attack, and then evenlegendary monsters are affected for a minimum of three rounds. Have one ally and choose Slimy Doom and you have stunlocked the enemy for three rounds. If it survives those three rounds by some miracle, do it again.

That's why I think the intent is for the monster to need to fail three saves before it takes effect. Otherwise, it is just way better than other spells of similar level. Heck, is is pretty competitive with Power Word Stun, an 8th level spell.

Dragon slayer spells, indeed.

 

[SigmaOne]

It is a level 5 spell now. I don't have access to the alpha at the moment.

To be clear, my belief that the intent is for the target to need to fail three saves before being affected is based on balance considerations and not the verbiage of the spell. As written, it seems clear that it takes effect right away.

But, compare it to Hold Monster, another level 5 single target debuff. HM is a concentration spell, it allows extra saves every round to shake off, and it allows a save right at the beginning to resist it entirely. Contagion does not require concentration, lands with a melee spell attack, and then evenlegendary monsters are affected for a minimum of three rounds. Have one ally and choose Slimy Doom and you have stunlocked the enemy for three rounds. If it survives those three rounds by some miracle, do it again.

That's why I think the intent is for the monster to need to fail three saves before it takes effect. Otherwise, it is just way better than other spells of similar level. Heck, is is pretty competitive with Power Word Stun, an 8th level spell.

Dragon slayer spells, indeed.

At first I was skeptical, but you make a strong case that this spell is a legendary monster killer. Essentially, whether it saves or not is irrelevant, and as long as your companions can make contact, it's out of commission.

 

[Tony Vargas]

While I admit that I am not a 5E expert, nor a math wiz, I do believe that I read somewhere that Advantage equates to a +5 bonus over a sufficient sample size.

It's really dependent on the chance of success of the roll it's being applied to. If it's about 50/50, yes, Advantage is like getting a +5 (and disadvantage like getting a -5). But it drops off, the easier or harder the roll, the less difference it makes compared to a bonus. If you need to roll a 20, for instance, Advantage is no better than getting a +1.

Since a PC Wolf Barbarian will be utilizing this feature nearly every (note I did not say all; I realize that it only applies when he is raging) battle of the campaign, that is a fairly consistent and long term sample size, thereby qualifying. Thus my trepidation and use of the "+5 bonus".

What you're missing is that Advantage comes along fairly often, and it doesn't stack, so he's not getting the equivalent of a +5, he's just getting Advantage when he wouldn't otherwise. Also, if you have even one source of Disadvantage, Advantage is gone, and Disadvantage isn't exactly rare, either.

So, no, it's not like a +5. It's Advantage. It's like a +5 that doesn't stack with other not-that-hard-to-get +5's, and is canceled by a not-that-hard-to-impose -5, in response.

Perhaps the biggest benefit of being able to easily get Advantage is that it easily cancels Disadvantage (any amount of Disadvantage), putting you right back at your baseline - which, for PCs, often isn't that bad.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

At first I was skeptical, but you make a strong case that this spell is a legendary monster killer. Essentially, whether it saves or not is irrelevant, and as long as your companions can make contact, it's out of commission.

Yes, the constitution variant is deadly... disadvantage against the relevant save and stunned with no save...
Mybe legendary creatures need another legendary resistance that only makes them use some of their actions when being stunned...

athough it seems, that a legendary creature can use its Legendary actions even when incapacitated... which is better than nothing...

 

[Psikerlord#]

I agree these are awesome, but it'll take time (and the MM) to know how over-powered they are. Even Kobolds get advantage whenever they're within 5' of an ally (Pack Tactics). In fact, this power is just mimicking the Pack Tactics feature of the wolf (hence Wolf Totem). So, there's cool stuff all around.

Also, I love that these powerful benefits make their teammates better, rather than themselves.

Yes agree I think that's really important - in order to encourage the use of teamwork style abilities, they have to be pretty awesome, or you will tend to get everyone picking the "me!" options. I didnt notice that Wolf Totem ability before, woo! yeah it's awesome if you have a melee buddy to team up with!

 

[Werebat]

At first I was skeptical, but you make a strong case that this spell is a legendary monster killer. Essentially, whether it saves or not is irrelevant, and as long as your companions can make contact, it's out of commission.

But it's a FIFTH LEVEL spell! And it's so weak, because that's ALL it can do! Plus, my character concept! And a really CREATIVE DM will find ways to challenge the party after they get this weak little niche spell! & etc., etc.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Barbarians!

The one thing that initially gives ME pause is that, while raging, a barbarian fully resists HALF of all physical damage. At level 1. Of course, will have to see how well this actually functions in play. The barbarian needs to attack or be attacked every round to maintain this.

 

[Li Shenron]

- Wolf Totem Spirit Barbarians grant advantage to the melee attacks of all friends within 5' of them [starts at 3rd level]

That's pretty good, although normally sticking together so close is a risky tactic, should there be any area of effects... It can be pretty powerful however when you have only 1 foe left on the battlefield, and everybody go surrounding it.

- Paladin's Aura of Protection grants them, and any friendly within 10', a bonus to all saves equal to their Cha mod [starts at 6th level]

This doesn't worry me much.

 

[styopa]

Its been a while since I've looked at one, but wasn't this an ability the 1st & 2nd Ed paladins had?

Original Paladin had Protection from Evil 15' radius, so yeah. Plus, nothing evil could physically touch anyone in that circle....which was either stupid-OP or (if not) nearly worthless. There were so many kludges in AD&D that this one was hardly ever even argued.

 

[Joe Liker]

As pointed out in a different thread, a level 20 Moon Circle druid has infinite hit points.