Things to do with Downtime Days

kalani

First Post
I believe he is alluding to the rule that you cannot normally loot items from a creature unless it is listed as treasure. This holds true for spellbooks as well - with most creatures lacking a spellbook as treasure. Only those ~half dozen spellbooks specifically listed as treasure can be looted, and each of these are detailed in the encounter as treasure, and listed in the treasure section at the end of each adventure.
 

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Steve_MND

First Post
Ah, okay. I thought he meant that only wizards could claim a listed spellbook as loot on their AR. That would come as a blow to one of my characters, who traditionally takes the spellbook if there is no-one else in the party who wants it, just in case a wizard I'm partying in some other later session wishes to copy something from it.
 


Steve_MND

First Post
No, I meant, my fighter (non-wziard) will take the spellbook as loot if no-one else at the table wants it, so other wizards can potentially copy out the listed spellbook if I end up sitting at a table with them at a later date. Are you saying that's not acceptable? i didn't see anything prohibiting a non-wizard from taking ownership of listed spellbooks as loot, nor does the FAQ entry mention anything about specifically wizards only. Altho I seem to recall one other place this was discussed in an official document, altho i can't find it.

I just hate the idea of a spellbook leaving the 'game economy' because it would otherwise go 'poof,' so to speak, especially with the rules in play currently restricting access to the various spell options.
 

kalani

First Post
Anyone can take a spellbook - however in my personal opinion wizards (and those with ritual books/books of shadows) should gain first dibs. I believe that is the intent, however there are no rules preventing a fighter from saying "I want the spellbook". Since they don't count as magic items, magic item totals don't come into play when it comes to a contested spellbook.
 

Byakugan

First Post
kalani,
What is the value of 'used' spellbooks in AL? I believe the closest answer is half the value of a blank. But it could just be 0?
 

kalani

First Post
Used spellbooks? As in a spellbook you want to sell?

Hmm.... It is technically mundane equipment so - 25gp (half value) seems fair, although there wouldn't be any refund on the cost of any spell(s) scribed into the book. As with other mundane equipment, you can loan it to other PCs, but you can't buy one for them, nor can you sell it to them either.

On the other hand, a DM may rule that you get 0gp for a used spellbook as it is essentially useless for any other wizard (except for spell research purposes). My final thought on the issue however, is that it might be considered a "book of lore" at this point, in which case you might get half the value of a book (12.5gp in this case). IDK - it is something I have never thought about (as most wizards are loathe to part with their spellbooks, except in the case of giving them away to trusted friends/students/etc as gifts).

I suppose there is a secondary market for those wanting to research spells, but seeing as that is something the rules don't cover, it is beyond the scope of AL as DMs cannot introduce treasure to an adventure (and the secondary sale of a spellbook for the purpose of spell research would definitely count as "adding treasure" as there is no market value for such).

This is a situation the rules technically cover (mundane gear is sold at 50% of its listed value in the PHB), but don't cover well.
 
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Byakugan

First Post
Used spellbooks? As in a spellbook you want to sell?

Hmm.... It is technically mundane equipment so - 25gp (half value) seems fair, although there wouldn't be any refund on the cost of any spell(s) scribed into the book. As with other mundane equipment, you can loan it to other PCs, but you can't buy one for them, nor can you sell it to them either.

On the other hand, a DM may rule that you get 0gp for a used spellbook as it is essentially useless for any other wizard (except for spell research purposes). My final thought on the issue however, is that it might be considered a "book of lore" at this point, in which case you might get half the value of a book (12.5gp in this case). IDK - it is something I have never thought about (as most wizards are loathe to part with their spellbooks, except in the case of giving them away to trusted friends/students/etc as gifts).

I suppose there is a secondary market for those wanting to research spells, but seeing as that is something the rules don't cover, it is beyond the scope of AL as DMs cannot introduce treasure to an adventure (and the secondary sale of a spellbook for the purpose of spell research would definitely count as "adding treasure" as there is no market value for such).

This is a situation the rules technically cover (mundane gear is sold at 50% of its listed value in the PHB), but don't cover well.

thats pretty much what I thought the rules were. I very much dislike the dystopian rules that limit basic spell research and highly incentivises meta gamesmanship. Traditionally, wizards are loathe to share magical secrets, but in AL it the only convenient way to actually find them. No amount of research, or character background, political contacts, or money can change this. If one of the fundamental functions of your class requires other -players- to sit with you and play the same class, this is an issue.
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
If you are playing an AL wizard, it is highly likely that the majority of your spells were added to your spellbook -completely free-.

You are correct that the six first-level spells you begin with as a wizard, plus the two spells you gain every time you advance a level in wizard, are free to put into your main spellbook. This does not mean those spells have no value.

On top of that, spells in your specialization school cost less to scribe. Retroactively calculating how much a wizard -would have had to spend- to make their spellbook is impossible to calculate in most cases.

Actually, it's far from impossible and usually very simple. One way to do so would be to simply calculate how much it would cost to make a backup copy of the spellbook, which is simply 10gp per level of spell in the book (half of that for spells of your specialist school gained after level 1). I mean, unless a wizard had the ability to identify whether a given spellbook was a 'primary' or 'backup' spellbook, there's no real justification to have the two types of spellbook have different values, even if they have different creation costs.

Another way to calculate the spellbook's value would be to simply treat all spells as if they had been scribed into the book manually (i.e.: not using the 'free' mechanic) for the purpose of determining the spellbook's value, which would be 50gp per spell level, half that for spells of your specialist school gained after level 1.

Edit: I'm actually OK with not bothering to figure the specialist bonus in the 'value' of the spells, even though they affect the 'cost' of the spells -- those are class features, and it's reasonable for a character to gain a benefit from a class feature, in this case, a more valuable spellbook than she paid to create.

There are numerous ways to calculate the value of a spellbook; that the rules aren't specific on how to do so in no way means that spellbooks have no value.

I was being generous saying filled spellbooks are only worth the value of a spellbook. They actually have no specific value at all, and can only even be kept by wizards because AL made a specific rule to allow them to.

As noted, this is a flawed analysis -- all spellbooks in AL modules are listed as treasure, and as noted in the ALPG, only certain kinds of treasure are "automatically converted to their full value in gold" at the end of the module (ALPG, p.6 - specifically, gems, art objects, jewelry, and trade goods). The 'rule' you describe is a rule that allows PCs to keep certain mundane items in those categories if they'd rather have the item than the gold (so you can keep the earring you got off the dragonborn sorcerer as a trophy, if you're willing to accept that in lieu of gold).

This is an exception to the usual rule that mundane items are either destroyed or liquidated automatically. A spellbook that is not claimed by a wizard creates precisely 0 gold to each party member.

Sorry, but this isn't the rule that covers spellbooks. You'll want to note the paragraph just below this in the current Season 3 ALPG:

"Arms, armor, and other equipment fetch half their cost if you sell them." (ALPG, p.6 - bold in original, italics mine)

And if you look on the list of adventuring gear (i.e.: other equipment), you'll find "spellbook" right there, plain as day. At the very least, a spellbook should be worth a minimum of 25gp as treasure, since that's half of what the equipment list specifies is the cost of an empty spellbook.

For example, the admins said it was legal to cast Fabricate to make a copy of a spellbook, but there is no value for them.

I'm unable to find any comment on the value of a spellbook created by Fabricate -- can you provide a citation? Also, note that the spell description of Fabricate does require raw materials to exist to Fabricate into an object; it would not be unreasonable to require that a spellcaster who wants to Fabricate a spellbook provide the same exotic inks that would be required to copy the spellbook manually (i.e.: 10gp per spell level of existing spells in the book). Otherwise, you'd only be creating a blank spellbook out of random paper and binding materials.

Everyone's mileage may vary, but through 40 sessions in season 1, including 3 Expeditions, my wizard never encountered a single wizard scroll or spellbook until he got Azbara Jos' spellbook from chapter 6.

Oh, well that makes sense, then. You're playing through a hard-cover adventure, with only a minimal amount of actual AL-crafted material. It's hard for me to imagine what kind of solution the admins could come up with to correct this perceived issue, given that the admins have no say in what appears in the hard-cover adventures and no real authority to change them.

Play through 40 sessions of actual AL-produced adventures, and you'll see far more spells for your spellbook. Heck, there are spellbooks in five consecutive Season 1 Expeditions, including one with multiple spellbooks.

With that said, it would be helpful if future modules could include the gold piece value of a spellbook on the list of treasure at the end of the module. This would allow the DM to easily convert the spellbook to gold should no one in the party want to claim it, rather than allowing it to 'disappear' as valueless. This would avoid the problem where the DM would need to assign a treasure value without much guidance on what value makes the most sense.

--
Pauper
 
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Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
Also, I can't ever read the subject of this thread without mentally adding "...when you're dead."

--
Pauper
 

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