This can't be right.

[Doctor DM]

So my DM has a lot of strange house rules that work against us. It sucks, but it's not too big of a deal, and it's a fun game. And, well, he's the DM, and what he says goes.

(To his credit he also has some houseruled stuff that helps us a lot as well.)

But this time I think he's gone too far.

I play an admittedly rather broken druid summoner character, and he has suddenly ruled that when we summon more creatures to aid us in battle, we don't gain as much experience, because we now have a bigger "party" and things become easier, and the summoned animals get xp too.

So that means everything my character is built for, loses us xp, because I cast certain types of spells. I think it's BS.

If you follow that logic, anytime a character uses any ability at all, you don't get as much XP. Wizards don't get penalized for casting fireball, barbarians don't lose out when they rage, and rangers don't hurt the parties level gain when they rapid shot.

So why do I cause the party to lose experience when I cast Summon Nature's Ally III?

This can't be right.

However, you can help. My DM said if enough people on here agree with me, he'll won't do it.

So what do you think? If you disagree, please tell, I want your point of view as well.

Thanks.

 

[FalcWP]

I'd say no way that's a fair ruling. But if it is, it means you gain XP if he ever uses summoned monsters against you, because that made for a larger encounter.

 

[UltimaGabe]

That's not a fair ruling at all. In fact, that's specifically how the Summon Spells are balanced- they're no more powerful than any other spell of the same level, given their casting time, duration, and so on. The only way you should end up with less XP is if the XP is then being divided among your Summoned Critters- in which case you should demand some beefed up Summoned Critters with each session.

 

[Maleketh]

That's not fair at all. There's absolutely no reason for you to be punished simply because you prefer some spells to others.

 

[Ambrus]

I agree that it's a badly thought out house-rule, though I have to admit that I'm intrigued by your DM's assertion that your summoned animals are gaining experience points from these encounters. Does that mean that, eventually, if you keep summoning the same animals that they'll start gaining levels? It'd eventually make your summoning spells more powerful without changing their level. It'd also be kind of fun to develop a relationship with your summoned buddies, as they grow and develop over time.

 

[Patlin]

So why do I cause the party to lose experience when I cast Summon Nature's Ally III?

This can't be right.

However, you can help. My DM said if enough people on here agree with me, he'll won't do it.

Summoning allies should not cost you xp. It might be worth noting that if the enemy summons allies, you don't get extra xp for the summoned creatures... just like you don't get extra xp if your enemy casts fireball.

 

[Rackhir]

Summoning is widely considered to be a sub-optimal choice for things to do and that's for a summoning optimized character.

I have a high level wizard with a bunch of optimizations and tweaks from the DM to make him better at summoning and a lot of the time it's still not the best choice. Now you're using SNA which IMHO is significantly better on average than Summon Monster, but you should not be penalized for casting an ordinary mundane spell.

Even if your summons are "gaining XP" they are unlikely to survive long enough to level significantly (at least 2/3 of my summons get killed) and even if they do level are STILL going to be inferior in all probability to the creatures off of the next level up's summoning list. So there really is no advantage to the DMs scheme for you, unless your campaign features extremely slow leveling.

You described your summoner as "Broken" I take it that means you have Greenbond summoning (SP?)? That's the only summoning feat/feature I can recall as ever being described as "overpowered". Perhaps you could drop that in exchange for something like Rapid Summoning (1 STD action vs full round action). Can you describe more fully why you/the DM feel the character is broken. Perhaps there are some other missinterpretations of the rules going on.

 

[Mistwell]

I agree that it's a badly thought out house-rule, though I have to admit that I'm intrigued by your DM's assertion that your summoned animals are gaining experience points from these encounters. Does that mean that, eventually, if you keep summoning the same animals that they'll start gaining levels? It'd eventually make your summoning spells more powerful without changing their level. It'd also be kind of fun to develop a relationship with your summoned buddies, as they grow and develop over time.

I agree. If I were to houserule such a brutal rule that impacts the party's XP, I would compensate by allowing the player to track the XP lost to summoned creatures in a "Summoned Creatures XP Pool". Each time the player summons creatures, the player should be able to assign the XP from the Summoned Creature XP Pool to the creatures he summons, as he sees fit. So all of it could go to one creature, or if he summoned more than one he could assign some to one and some to the other, splitting it as the player sees fit. This would have the effect of adding levels eventually to one or more summoned creatures, making them more powerful for the same spell slots.

From a role playing aspect, I would probably say that summoned creatures are really just different shapes and aspects of what is actually a very small group of spiritual beings. That way, even as you advance in level and get higher CR creatures to summon like elementals, their personalities can be the same personalities that you encountered at lower levels when those creatures were badgers and bats. And of course they would eventually be more powerful because of the XP.

It would help some role playing aspects of the game, and probably still be fairly balanced. Sort of like using summoning as a mini-leadership feat (though still the loss of XP is brutal).

 

[Rhun]

Horrible houserule. I disagree with it completely.


With that said, if the DM wants to limit how quickly you gain XP and level, that is well within his rights to do as far as it fits the game/campaign. But it shouldn't be based off of one PC's class abilities/spell choices.

 

[Vahktang]

I agree that it's a badly thought out house-rule, though I have to admit that I'm intrigued by your DM's assertion that your summoned animals are gaining experience points from these encounters. Does that mean that, eventually, if you keep summoning the same animals that they'll start gaining levels? It'd eventually make your summoning spells more powerful without changing their level. It'd also be kind of fun to develop a relationship with your summoned buddies, as they grow and develop over time.

Yes, for those under a minute full of combat experiences that lead to trust, respect and a good relationship.


DMG, PG 37

Do not award X.P. for creatures that enemies summon or otherwise add to their forces with magic powers.

If you do not add X.P.s for summoned creatures of the enemy, then do not subract X.P.s for the players summoning.

Just remind the GM that the bad guys can have broken druid summoner characters, too.
And that a 1st level Protection from spell causes any animal you summon from harming the bad guys. That's a 50 gp potion.