This is what Martial Power looks like


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El Mahdi

Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
All of these moves and feats are super cool, but still not anything that anyone with a modicum of common sense would attempt during real combat, unless they absolutely had no other choice.

I truly enjoy seeing such representations on TV, in movies, and in RPG's. But, these are nothing but exhibitions, even the acrobatic guys. Granted, the really good ones could do that stuff all day long, but someone truly experienced in combat (as opposed to just trained for it) knows better than to do anything that purposely places them in a do-or-die situation. Even one of those incredibly talented acrobats occasionally misses. The problem is, from a real-combat point of view, a miss almost assuredly means death (whether from injury from the mis-step, or an enemy taking advantage of your mis-step - a real coup-de-grace, not an RPG one).

In real combat, when one makes an offensive move, the smart opponents (those that live long enough to be experienced combatants) don't do it without planning to, and attempting to, finish in a defensive position. Just in case they miss. You never purposely put yourself in a position where, if you miss, you will probably be killed yourself. Remember, a wound in real combat doesn't just take away a few hit points, it's more likely than not Game Over. Nothing is guaranteed in combat. It may be boring and conservative, but in real combat you play the odds. If failure of an attack or maneuver would result in almost assured death, you usually don't do it. The law of averages catches up with everyone eventually.

Jackie Chan may be able to do some incredible things on film, but just watch the blooper reels and you'll see he misses almost as much as he succeeds. Jackie Chan could beat most people in a real fight, but I'd guarantee you'd see absolutely none of the stuff you see in his movies. It would be quick, brutal, efficient, un-flashy, and boring - but he'd kick your ass nonetheless.

But, (my being a Buzzkill notwithstanding) these videos are excellent examples of special RPG maneuvers and powers. If you like the no-holds barred but unrealistic fights that happen in movies today (ala Jakie Chan, Chow Yun-Fat, Jet Li, Jason Statham, etc.), then allowing such maneuvers in an at-will manner works. If you want a more realistic approach, then encounter, daily, or action point only, fits better. I think 4E has done a fairly good job of striking a balance between simulating real combat, and an all out reality-break like a Jason Statham movie. The feats presented in these videos are an excellent example of 4E powers, and certainly very entertaining - just like most RPG's are designed to be: Entertaining.
 

JiffyPopTart

Bree-Yark
Well, I challenge you to find a link to a video where someone is actually having their face eaten by a manticore.

The only videos you are going to find on the internet (I guess besides a few underground sites that most people wouldn't stumble across) aren't going to involve people fighting for their lives.

That being said, if my adventurer were being chased by an angry mob there is no way I WOULDN'T try to free climb up the mountainside rather than turn and try to take them all on singled handedly.

DS
 


robertliguori

First Post
All of these moves and feats are super cool, but still not anything that anyone with a modicum of common sense would attempt during real combat, unless they absolutely had no other choice.

I truly enjoy seeing such representations on TV, in movies, and in RPG's. But, these are nothing but exhibitions, even the acrobatic guys. Granted, the really good ones could do that stuff all day long, but someone truly experienced in combat (as opposed to just trained for it) knows better than to do anything that purposely places them in a do-or-die situation. Even one of those incredibly talented acrobats occasionally misses. The problem is, from a real-combat point of view, a miss almost assuredly means death (whether from injury from the mis-step, or an enemy taking advantage of your mis-step - a real coup-de-grace, not an RPG one).

In real combat, when one makes an offensive move, the smart opponents (those that live long enough to be experienced combatants) don't do it without planning to, and attempting to, finish in a defensive position. Just in case they miss. You never purposely put yourself in a position where, if you miss, you will probably be killed yourself. Remember, a wound in real combat doesn't just take away a few hit points, it's more likely than not Game Over. Nothing is guaranteed in combat. It may be boring and conservative, but in real combat you play the odds. If failure of an attack or maneuver would result in almost assured death, you usually don't do it. The law of averages catches up with everyone eventually.

Jackie Chan may be able to do some incredible things on film, but just watch the blooper reels and you'll see he misses almost as much as he succeeds. Jackie Chan could beat most people in a real fight, but I'd guarantee you'd see absolutely none of the stuff you see in his movies. It would be quick, brutal, efficient, un-flashy, and boring - but he'd kick your ass nonetheless.

But, (my being a Buzzkill notwithstanding) these videos are excellent examples of special RPG maneuvers and powers. If you like the no-holds barred but unrealistic fights that happen in movies today (ala Jakie Chan, Chow Yun-Fat, Jet Li, Jason Statham, etc.), then allowing such maneuvers in an at-will manner works. If you want a more realistic approach, then encounter, daily, or action point only, fits better. I think 4E has done a fairly good job of striking a balance between simulating real combat, and an all out reality-break like a Jason Statham movie. The feats presented in these videos are an excellent example of 4E powers, and certainly very entertaining - just like most RPG's are designed to be: Entertaining.

Well, yes. But is the old man in the bathrobe with the crooked stick shouting faux-Latin at you a threat, or merely an oddity?

One of the neat thing about 4E's mythos is that it gives you explicit liscense to have an acrobatic rogue pull off things as unexpected and unrealistic as fireball-from-wand with muscle, training, and his heroic edge. We know (well, most of us know) that fights are not won by looking cool, but by being lucky, skilled, and not making a critical mistake and avoiding them whenever possible, but things are different in D&D.
 

El Mahdi

Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
That being said, if my adventurer were being chased by an angry mob there is no way I WOULDN'T try to free climb up the mountainside rather than turn and try to take them all on singled handedly.

Which would fit the definition of a situation where one would have no other choice.

But, to use moves such as these all of the time, as standard operations, would be counterproductive in real combat. They would not be a boon, since eventually you would have a mishap, and a mishap means almost certain death. As I said before, a smart combatant does not purposely place oneself in a do-or-die situation unless there is no other alternative.

Of course, the smart combatant would have had his escape route planned out prior to such an engagement. But as the saying goes, the first casualty of combat are your plans. If your plans are no longer feasible, and if you have no other choice, then taking such chances is still better than the alternative - but this would be the exception, not the rule.
 
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roguerouge

First Post
Since Lawrence Maroney's bum shoulder borked one of my teams this year, imagine how glad I am to see him risking it further by leaping through a metal hoop.
 

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