Thoughts on an evolving Greyhawk across editions

[fletch137]

It all started with a casual flip through of the 4th Ed. version of 'Tomb of Horrors'. I thought to myself "this can only really be appreciated by players who've played the original ToH."

And then my brain went "DING".

The thought was, how do the different editions of D&D suggest how the Greyhawk setting would evolve to meet the new rules?

Fer instance: Gods. In 1st edition, there were no specialty priests, suggesting that all the gods were worshiped as one big pantheon? Or maybe each god was less invested in Oerth and didn't give more than a basic nod of divine power to whatever claimed to be a follower? But as 1st evolved into 2nd, specialty priests became not only an option, but then an assumption. Over the years, the myriad of Oerth gods (and there really were a lot of them) began paying more and more attention to their followers on Oerth and giving them extra, special abilities to promote their portfolios.

That lasted to 3rd edition when a smaller handful of Greyhawk gods were presented as the core pantheon. The other gods all still existed (if nowhere else then in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer), but these 19 gods were the main ones. Had their followers been the most successful in promoting their gods' agendas? Did these 19 grow to dominate the pantheon because of an increased number of followers on Oerth?

THEN what happened? 4th Edition brought a whole lot of new gods to the mix. In some cases, I'm seeing Greyhawk deities continue their rise to power and take over other portfolios (Kord). In others, I lean toward replacing the 4th ed god with a Greyhawk equivalent (ie. line out "Bane" and write "Hextor"). And in some, I think we can adapt the mythology of the 4E setting (such as Nerull being killed by the Raven Queen).

There are a lot of other aspects that can be tracked across editions. The increasing level of magic, for example (compare the no. of spells per day to a wizard of each edition, or how much easier crafting magic items became over four editions), or a cultural blending when halflings learned how to be paladins and dwarves started training wizards at the dawn of 3E.

Any other thoughts on how Greyhawk would grow/change to meet new editions?

 

[Raith5]

Good question. I like you idea of the Raven Queen. Bahamut could be Heironeous

I did think that one could draw the Suel (a human race who fled the rain of colourless fire and migrated across Greyhawk) as Tieflings (maybe tone down their horns and tail etc). The Suel always struck me as shady...

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Interestingly, while this is a thought exercise for Greyhawk, it's actually what FR fans have had to endure with D&D edition changes.

With such widespread changes, it would seem that there was some sort of magical cataclysm - ideally not as far-reaching as FR 4E's Spellplague - providing the catalyst for the fall of some deities, the rise of some others and the import of some like Bane from other worlds.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

While it may be fun to daydream about how new editions are reflected within a setting, I prefer to simply reboot a setting when the rules change. I guess on a grand scale, I prefer my settings to exist in stasis. (Or at least not have some massive world-changing event every 1d100 years.)

"Nothing has changed. This is how it's always been."

 

[fletch137]

Interestingly, while this is a thought exercise for Greyhawk, it's actually what FR fans have had to endure with D&D edition changes.

Part of my thoughts here are to avoid such brutal restructurings and just think of how a setting could ease into a new framework. Fer instance, as much as I didn't want to the planar cosmology of Eberron to change in 4th, I gotta respect that they didn't shake things up, they just said "here's another way to think of it."

In Greyhawk, we could just be seeing a new line of "scientific" thought come about where the old Great Wheel is considered outdated by all the new scholars who've divided things up into Feywild, Elemental Chaos, and so on. Instead of a cataclysm, it's just a redirection.

I mean, 1st and 2nd Edition were very clearly modeled on the Middle Ages. As editions came along, though, equipment lists, book art and play styles progressed to present an almost Renaissance level. If we allow just a generation or two of Greyhawk between editions, it wouldn't be world-shattering to allow the mortal's understanding of the world to change, or see some politicking in the heavens as the gods see their worshipers spread their faiths.

 

[fletch137]

I did think that one could draw the Suel (a human race who fled the rain of colourless fire and migrated across Greyhawk) as Tieflings (maybe tone down their horns and tail etc). The Suel always struck me as shady...

I've toyed with that too. The parallels between the Suel/Baklunish war and the Tiefling/Dragonborn war are too much to pass up on. Because I wouldn't want to retroactively change the 1st-3rd editions, though, I'm leaning toward just having the noble families of ancient Suel make the pact to become tieflings and have their descendants start becoming more common as our timeline approaches the 4e era.

Not sure what to do with Dragonborn, though. I don't want to just make the Baklunish people suddenly dragonborn, and it's an all-or-nothing thing with them. 3rd Edition introduced dragonborn as people of other races who are "reborn" as dragonpeople. Maybe I'll keep Baklunish as human but introduce this into their culture somehow until they all *become* dragonborn in time for 4th.

Or maybe I'll have actual DBs living across the Drawmidj Ocean and have Baklunish explorers introduce them to the Flanaess.

I dunno. They're still kind of a puzzle to me. I love how they (and Tieflings) are a core race in 4th, and I'd like to see them rise to that level in my little game here, but I'm not sure how exactly. One benefit, though, is that 3rd was pretty free with the races. It's totally in keeping with that edition to see a rise of tieflings and dragonborn (somehow) until they become major players in the world by the 4th era.

 

[the Jester]

Fer instance: Gods. In 1st edition, there were no specialty priests, suggesting that all the gods were worshiped as one big pantheon? Or maybe each god was less invested in Oerth and didn't give more than a basic nod of divine power to whatever claimed to be a follower?

Just to quibble-

Incorrect, sir!

1e Greyhawk material gives priests of specific deities extra bonus abilities in exchange for an xp payment. For instance, a cleric of Heironius of sufficient level could unleash a positive energy bolt, IIRC 1/week starting at lvl 7. (This is in the bigger WoG 1e boxed set.)

 

[fletch137]

1e Greyhawk material gives priests of specific deities extra bonus abilities in exchange for an xp payment. For instance, a cleric of Heironius of sufficient level could unleash a positive energy bolt,

Crazy. I'd never heard of that before. Thanks.

 

[stoloc]

I've toyed with that too. The parallels between the Suel/Baklunish war and the Tiefling/Dragonborn war are too much to pass up on. Because I wouldn't want to retroactively change the 1st-3rd editions, though, I'm leaning toward just having the noble families of ancient Suel make the pact to become tieflings and have their descendants start becoming more common as our timeline approaches the 4e era.

Not sure what to do with Dragonborn, though. I don't want to just make the Baklunish people suddenly dragonborn, and it's an all-or-nothing thing with them. 3rd Edition introduced dragonborn as people of other races who are "reborn" as dragonpeople. Maybe I'll keep Baklunish as human but introduce this into their culture somehow until they all *become* dragonborn in time for 4th.

Or maybe I'll have actual DBs living across the Drawmidj Ocean and have Baklunish explorers introduce them to the Flanaess.

I dunno. They're still kind of a puzzle to me. I love how they (and Tieflings) are a core race in 4th, and I'd like to see them rise to that level in my little game here, but I'm not sure how exactly. One benefit, though, is that 3rd was pretty free with the races. It's totally in keeping with that edition to see a rise of tieflings and dragonborn (somehow) until they become major players in the world by the 4th era.

There is actually a map I've seen that extends the WoG map to the west. Among the other areas are a Dragon Empire (not sure the exact name). It was originally supposed to be a far eastern type area but if you want I see no reason to not make it Dragonborn IF you insist on including them. Personally I see no problem leaving them out if you choose.