Thoughts on Damage Reduction...

[ThaDium]

This is a house rules thought I've been having that grew out of speculation about where DND NEXT might go.

Why should spells overcome DR that isn't magic? Doesn't that just add one more layer of overpowered-ness to Mages?

Seems to me that a werewolf, for example, should have its DR apply to spells as well. Why not reduce the damage of a fireball that strikes a lycanthrope by 10 points? Fire damage from torches too, for that matter...

Has anyone tried this?

What do y'all think of it as an idea? (Aside from the fact that it'll change CRs.)

-ThaDium

 

[the Jester]

No thank you.

Why on Earth should a werewolf resist fire? Much less lightning, magic missiles, acid, etc?

DR makes fighter-heavy parties work. It makes some groups think around it- "I'll pull out a flask of oil!" Making it universal- so that it applies to nonphysical damage- eliminates any kind of tactical element to it.

It's not to my taste, significantly changes how monsters are balanced and leads to bizarre effects like magic missile become almost useless except for shooting goblins and bandits.

 

[Tovec]

(I assume this is 3e-ish related. Otherwise, disregard.)

Has anyone tried this?

I have, it worked fine. The wizards (for example) kept on not-using their energy damage and kept using their things that bypassed to-hits or HP in general. At least at higher levels, at lower levels a werewolf can tear a party apart and curse a good percentage of them, so I assumed that wasn't what you were talking about.

What do y'all think of it as an idea? (Aside from the fact that it'll change CRs.)

Would it though? Again, non-casters are the weaker 3e classes and have to deal with DR. Casters bypass the DR more often than not, especially at higher levels.

Just keep in mind what happens when the party encounters constructs. Except that lycanthropes can be countered by so many more things.

Also, who cares if they do have DR 10/magic and cold iron. The wizard might be able to beat that entirely and not care if they are getting reduced by 10. In this case though, I would have a way for the caster to gain cold iron just as the fighter would.

Oh, and there are certain spells that should bypass even DR. Magic missile being a prime example, but also things like negative energy perhaps? That would be much more situational.

 

[Stormonu]

I agree on limiting attack spells via DR, though SR can also do the job (though SR tends to become an all-or-nothing affair)

If DR can prevent a sword from ripping a werewolf in twain, why shouldn't that same supernatural trait provide protection from arrows made of magical force or even fire which cooks off layers of flesh or acid that eats away at flesh?

 

[DogBackward]

Why should spells overcome DR that isn't magic?

Because Wizards can't buy a silver or adamantine fireball. If we're talking about fairness like that, why doesn't spell resistance protect against the Fighter's sword? Because SR is magical, in the same way that DR is physical. They're two different ways of adding an extra challenge for two different types of character.

 

[Stormonu]

Because Wizards can't buy a silver or adamantine fireball. If we're talking about fairness like that, why doesn't spell resistance protect against the Fighter's sword? Because SR is magical, in the same way that DR is physical. They're two different ways of adding an extra challenge for two different types of character.

In that regard, the 3.0 DR X/magic +Y could be helpful. Where +Y is the plus of the weapon or the level of the spell. Though unless you count magic weapon "special abilities" such as flaming count as bonuses, you won't see above needing a +5 bonus - which gives 6th+ level spells a pass on DR.

Magic missile still becomes a fall-off spell unless you treat all the missiles striking a target as one big strike (sort of a mini AoA, as you treat FB as one big blast instead of a bunch of individual flames).

 

[Kinak]

Magical damage tends to be handled by resistances and immunities instead. It probably wouldn't break things too badly to count DR as "Resist Everything Except X" that doesn't stack with specific resistance.

I wouldn't go straight into it without a bit more houseruling, though. Do spells that bypass hardness count as adamantine? Are their metamagic feats or focus items to tune spells, adding alignment or material keywords? Things like that.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Dozen]

Hmm... It certainly is a sensible idea, but to make it work, on one end where we just say 'no spell bypasses natural DR and leave it at that' would unbalance the game even more unless we revisioned the CR of monsters with DR, and on the other we would need tons of guidelines, exceptions and a new rulebook worth of material, which, in effect, would end up deep in the AoE category of rules we ought to look up next to every turn, spend half a year/use natural talent to memorize it, or keep near us at all times. Are you sure you want to try?

 

[Dandu]

If you're worried about Fireball breaking the game... well, let's just say I'd love to be in a game where Polymorph, Glitterdust, Slow, Web, Solid Fog, Magic Jar, Simulacrum, Polymorph Any Object, Time Stop, Gate and etc aren't the real problem.

You're approach, while well meaning, only nerfs blaster mages. But if a mage is focusing on blasting, then he's already done a pretty good job of nerfing himself, so why bother?

 

[Sekhmet]

I tend to agree with Dandu. If a caster (especially a Wizard) is dedicating himself to throwing fireballs with whimsy, he's already choosing to nerf himself; no need to do it further.

If you'd like to go down that road, you should consider making EX damage reduction remain useless against magic, and SU damage reduction useful against it. Having thick skin doesn't really change how much fire or acid hurts, or how conductive you are to electricity, while having a divine blob surrounding you might.