Tiers of Damage − Rates of Healing

[Yaarel]

This will give a specific feel to a campaign, quite a bit different than "traditional" healing. If that's the feel wanted at the table, then this works well.

Again, depending on the feel you are going for that's likely either a benefit or a detriment.

To me, hits vs. misses and saves and who is targeted are so swingy that having these additional thresholds that force long extra periods of rest that I can't predict are a detriment.

If I plan something where rests are hard (time pressure, wandering monsters, etc.) then I'm forcing some characters to carry a much higher risk than others depending on how the dice fall.

Even more importantly I'm increasing dependence on magical healing like we had in the editions up through 3.5, which strongly changes the resource balance of healer types to much more support characters. I like that self-healing has allowed those characters not to have to focus on using their spell slots so heavily I heals and can do other things without feeling like they are letting their party down.

As a corollary, this effectively removes the ability to play without magical healing.

Realism over heroics is a decent thing at some tables. 3.x does a better job of simulating the real world than 5e, personally I'll play that system if I'm looking for it.

Mostly, I feel the concerns are working as intended. The point of a vigorous/bloodied system (or vitality/wound system) is physical damage takes longer to heal.

If all damage heals easily, then by definition, the game *feels* like all damage is nonphysical. Many players voice concerns about 5e enabling heroes to continually bounce back and forth between 0 and 1 hp.

If bloodied mechanically means a physical beating, and 0 hp means a possible internal injury (possibly a broken bone or death), then injury *feels* more real, and players make an effort to avoid it.

Nonphysical hit points remain easily recoverable, so in most cases, an adventure can still continue.



However, I agree with your concerns about magic versus nonmagic. All classes must balance reasonably and be equally viably. Dependence on magic to heal physical damage, skews the balance against nonmagical class.

Maybe a remedy is to nerf healing magic? So, low level spells can only heal vigor. Only spell slot levels 5 and up can heal physical damage dramatically.

 

[Yaarel]

I am leaning toward splitting hit points in the following way:

• Constitution = strictly physical ‘blood’ points
• Class hit points = strictly nonphysical ‘vigor’ points


A character has a pool of physical ‘blood’ hit points equal to the Constitution score (≈ 10 + 2 x Constitution modifier).

A character has a separate pool of nonphysical ‘vigor’ hit points equal to the hit dice per level (or its average). For example, a Fighter simply gains 1d10 (or 6) hit points of vigor per level. A Wizard gets 1d6 (or 4) hit points per level. There is no Constitution bonus at each level. There is no maximizing hit points at level 1.

• It is necessary to bring the vigor points to 0 before dealing damage to blood points.
• Becoming bloodied is superficial damage (scrapes, knicks, bruises).
• When blood points reach 0, the character starts making saves versus death.


Curiously, this hit point system where Constitution means physical structure, is a nod to 4e where the Constitution score made level 1 characters tougher. And, it is also a nod to 1e where Gygax describes hit points as mainly nonphysical, yet contrasts how Constitution increases physical toughness.

Dividing the vigor and blood pools this way might also help lessen the difference between magical and nonmagical classes. The system is simpler when all class hit points simply equal vigor, and physical Constitution can be more clearly handled separately. So low level magic might be less effective versus physical damage. And high level characters are less dependent on physical damage.

 

[Tony Vargas]

• It is necessary to bring the vigor points to 0 before dealing damage to blood points.

If you're going to go with a two-pool system, that'd be a critical part of keeping it workable.

You could stick with the existing rules about 0 hps, so you don't take 'blood points' (flashed back to V:tM, there for a sec) as overflow when you're reduced to 0. Or maybe you should just take the token one bp, becoming 'bloodied?'

Another thing to consider is the way 5e damage potential baloons with level. Without CON bonus to hps every level, players will be behind the hp curve relative to monster hps & damage (and their own damage, for that matter) - I know, in theory there can/should be PCs without CON bonuses, in theory they might die a lot, too (one survey here showed that PCs gravitated pretty heavily to CON 14, btw).

You could compensate a number of ways. By not compensating, just accepting that PCs are going to be eggshells with howitzers instead of tin cans with howitzers. By reducing damage potential (PC & monster) and monster hps at higher levels.

Or, by making it harder to inflict blood points than hps:

The afore-mentioned requirement of 0 hps before inflicting bps is a good idea. You could also drop damage substantially, One idea I toyed with in 3e when considering a system that'd do ability damage after hps were exhausted was to reduce (change) damage to one die vs 0 hp targets. So a dagger, whether you hit or crit, were normally -1 to damage or +12, would always do d4 bps to a 0hp target. An 8d6 fireball would do d6. That kind of thing.

Makes those d12 weapons look a little nicer, huh?

 

[Yaarel]

Another thing to consider is the way 5e damage potential baloons with level. Without CON bonus to hps every level, players will be behind the hp curve relative to monster hps & damage (and their own damage, for that matter) - I know, in theory there can/should be PCs without CON bonuses, in theory they might die a lot, too (one survey here showed that PCs gravitated pretty heavily to CON 14, btw).

Using the Constitution score, to represent the blood points, seems comparable to hit point totals.

If most characters strongly gravitate to a Constitution score of 14, a +2 hit point bonus per level, would add 20 hit points by level 10. So, adding the Constitution score of 14 at level 1, already accounts for most of this.

Continuing to add the Constitution bonus to the hit dice, to recover vigor points (in this case representing nonphysical stamina), seems to make any difference in overall hit-point totals a wash.


The overall effect of using the Constitution score:
• Level 1 characters survive better.
• Low-level characters ‘bleed’ much more than high level characters.
• As blood points take longer to recover, a beat-up low level character requires more recoup and rehab.
• So the extra hit points at level 1, arent really for free, even if they help lessen chance of insta-death.




(Incidentally, I updated the third post to emphasize that dying, that is, beginning to make saves versus death, almost always leaves a scar.)

 

[Yaarel]

Flavorwise, I feel, the Fighter class feature, Second Wind, in fact, heals blood points.

The Fighter undergoes grueling physical training. And is able to shake off *physical* punishment, and keep on going. In other words, the Fighter can ignore a chunk of the bloodied damage, despite actually getting bruised and scraped.

 

[Yaarel]

With regard to an Injury system, I am leaning toward:

• To fail a save versus death, means a risk to life ... or limb.
• In other words: instead of death, a disability occurs.
• The DM decides the disability from damage type, location of the injury on body, etcetera.

• There is something like the Exhaustion system.
• Each failed save versus death worsens the Exhaustion level.
• Except, breaking an arm would impair use of the arm, rather than halving the speed.
• Breaking an arm would make the hero stunned, but not necessarily unconscious.
• The Exhaustion table might need some tweaking.
• The final level, Death, for a broken arm, may still be death (blood loss, brain clot, etc.).




The DM adjudicates what an injury looks like, but tables can help inform possible locations and how serious it might be.

 

[robus]

I like this a lot [MENTION=58172]Yaarel[/MENTION] - stealing for my Curse of Innistrad campaign - which is calling out to be a bit more gritty.

 

[DJCupboard]

How about 50% split at 1st level, as described, but for gaining levels, con mod adds to blood points and class HD adds to vigor. As you level, it gets harder to get into your blood pool, but those points stay incredibly important because you'll never have more than 100 (20th level, 20 Con)


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