Time for a new Players Handbook

[scylis]

So? They thought they could sell them. Now and as we go in the future the probability to be able to sell these products shrinks considerably.

EDIT: And we still do not know how successfully compatible the classes will be after we get the full erata. So far, some problems have already been a matter of debade on the forums.

No-one made a huge stink about a "revised edition" and whatnot when they came out save for the people who make a huge stink about the errata itself creating a "revised edition".

My thoughts on the matter would be to make the new, updated printings in slightly different formats than the non-updated ones. Maybe another round of "Delux Editions" with all the errata current to the time of printing and perhaps a smaller softcover version similar in size to the Essentials books but with the formatting of the hardcovers, including the outside visual aesthetics of the originals. Then, when there's enough of a demand for the traditionally-dimensioned hardcover, print updated versions of those, two.

 

[Jhaelen]

The problem is that I am confused as to what to tell them - they don't even known about Essentials, although both use Character Builder (probably not updated for at least a few months).

Well, that makes it rather easy then; at least if you (or one of your other players) have the most recent version of the character builder:

Let them create their characters using their version of the CB, then load them into the current CB version and print the character sheets to a pdf.
Send them the pdf and ask them to look them over. If they give their okay, you're ready to go.

That's the approach I used when we continued our 4e game last week that we had abandoned a year ago.

All that happened was that two players decided to switch a power and the Wizard player was actually happy about the changes to magic missile (funnily, initially he was of the opinion it had always been auto-hit!).

During the game there were only two source of confusion caused by rules updates:
- The changes to Healing Word
- The changes to the Stealth rules

There are tiny to moderate problems with pretty much most classes in the original PHB, stuff that I'm pretty sure has been addressed but am not sure where. The errata document(s)? Character Builder? Bill Slaviscek's bedside notebook?

Don't believe the internet! There seem to be a lot of rules updates, but really: How many of them actually matter at the gaming table?

Things like the changes to the definition of conditions are largely irrelevant to the players. All they're doing is to clarify extremely rare corner-cases and weird rules interactions.

None of my players had any problems using their PHBs (at least the ones that bothered to get one ). There were several incidents where I made sure to check if any (relevant!) changes had been made to PHB rules by comparing with my (manually!) errataed PHB, but apart from the two items mentioned above, there weren't any.

Note, that I used the revised Skill DCs and Monster Damage tables but that's something only the DM has to deal with.

Essentially, nothing important has changed at all

 

[Zaran]

I think the main reason why the core books should be reprinted is because of the fact that players who like Essentials will want to buy them and they will wonder why the rules in the book are outdated.

On another note, it almost seems like WotC is trying to require us all to have a DDI account. I for one do not think that Essentials should be the only updated printed property DnD has. I am not going to buy all the Essentials books. I did buy the Rules Compendium. I would still buy an updated PHB though because I would like to use it for reference.

You know what would really sell a revised PHB? If they rebalanced the old classes to be more in line with later clases.

 

[Remathilis]

You know what would really sell a revised PHB? If they rebalanced the old classes to be more in line with later clases.

Wizard's tried that once. They rebalanced the half-elf, the specialist wizard, ranger and bard classes, consolidated the skill list to remove useless skills, fixed some awful spells, added a few new spells, clarified combat rules, and did some touch-ups to barbarians, monks, rogues, and druids.

They called it 3.5. Nerdrage insued. I don't think anyone thinks the 3.0 ranger is better than the 3.5 one, but something about "rebuying the core book because it includes all the major changes" makes people's blood boil.

Essentials allows them to sell "updated core" without forcing everyone to "rebuy the PHB". Not perfect, but WotC damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.

 

[Zaran]

Wizard's tried that once. They rebalanced the half-elf, the specialist wizard, ranger and bard classes, consolidated the skill list to remove useless skills, fixed some awful spells, added a few new spells, clarified combat rules, and did some touch-ups to barbarians, monks, rogues, and druids.

They called it 3.5. Nerdrage insued. I don't think anyone thinks the 3.0 ranger is better than the 3.5 one, but something about "rebuying the core book because it includes all the major changes" makes people's blood boil.

Essentials allows them to sell "updated core" without forcing everyone to "rebuy the PHB". Not perfect, but WotC damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.

I don't agree. I didn't have any gripes about buying 3.5 . I was just happy that some fixes were done. Of course, 3.5 had it's own problems but noone in my group really had issues. I honestly think that people are overblowing the whole "No 4.5" concept. Because like it or not, the game is different now than it was 2 years ago.

 

[DEFCON 1]

On another note, it almost seems like WotC is trying to require us all to have a DDI account.

And this I think is pretty much the reason why we won't see a 'revised' PH printed. Because at this point, DDI is their core. They want people going forward to consider DDI as the main entry and focal point of the game, and not the hardcover books.

And this is simply because editing DDI and keeping rules up-to-date is much, much easier in an electronic format than a printed one, plus it's a more regular revenue stream. While they certainly understand that some players prefer their games to be printed rather than electronic (which is why you'll still find the books on the shelves until they finally completely sell out whenever that happens)... going forward with the proliferation of laptops, iphones, e-readers and such, electronic distribution via DDI will be the main platform to get the game out to us.

Some players won't like that... some will probably even leave the game behind because of it... but like in anything, you have to try and stay ahead of the times if you hope to succeed, and treating errata like computer software patches make for a much cleaner and cheaper game than trying to continually print and distribute "revised books" every year.

 

[Zaran]

And this I think is pretty much the reason why we won't see a 'revised' PH printed. Because at this point, DDI is their core. They want people going forward to consider DDI as the main entry and focal point of the game, and not the hardcover books.

And this is simply because editing DDI and keeping rules up-to-date is much, much easier in an electronic format than a printed one, plus it's a more regular revenue stream. While they certainly understand that some players prefer their games to be printed rather than electronic (which is why you'll still find the books on the shelves until they finally completely sell out whenever that happens)... going forward with the proliferation of laptops, iphones, e-readers and such, electronic distribution via DDI will be the main platform to get the game out to us.

Some players won't like that... some will probably even leave the game behind because of it... but like in anything, you have to try and stay ahead of the times if you hope to succeed, and treating errata like computer software patches make for a much cleaner and cheaper game than trying to continually print and distribute "revised books" every year.

While I agree that DDI is great, I think it's a mistake to not keep their core rulebooks current. There is still a market out there for printed books. I also do not think people are asking for a yearly revision. We are going into the third year of 4e. Nothing wrong with revising the edition after 3 years.

 

[jimmifett]

I'd say, instead of new/revised PHB1, Have a 'Class Reference' series once the powers books are out of print/circulation.

Each class gets it's own splat book, with all the current builds, and maybe 1 or two more, all the current powers and feats associated with the class and class specific paragons.

I think this could easily be squeezed down into 32-48 pages (i heard publishers like multiples of 8?) per class and could be priced in the $10-$15 range.

Cheap enough for a player. Us collectors will roll our eyes of course at even more stuff to buy.

 

[DEFCON 1]

There is still a market out there for printed books. I also do not think people are asking for a yearly revision.

But part of my point is that I think WotC is doing their level best to change the market. They don't want that market to remain.

They want to inspire players to move past the need to have printed books... partly because I would imagine they make less money off of printed book sales than they do DDI subscriptions... and partly just to get people used to this new "computer patch" paradigm of continually keeping the game as up-to-date and balanced as possible.

And if they have to disappoint and/or lose a few of you along the way who don't want to move into this new era... then so be it. It's the same feeling they had in the moves from 2E to 3E and 3E to 4E.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

I'd say, instead of new/revised PHB1, Have a 'Class Reference' series once the powers books are out of print/circulation.

Each class gets it's own splat book, with all the current builds, and maybe 1 or two more, all the current powers and feats associated with the class and class specific paragons.

I think this could easily be squeezed down into 32-48 pages (i heard publishers like multiples of 8?) per class and could be priced in the $10-$15 range.

Cheap enough for a player. Us collectors will roll our eyes of course at even more stuff to buy.

TSR did those, as the "Complete" books...

Some sold great like the "Complete Fighter's Handbook" or the "Complete Book of Elves"

Some sold poorly like the "Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings"

...and most of them were filled with munchkiny cheese!

As a whole, the idea bombed.