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Tips on Streamlining for a Very Large Party?
- Thread starter Once a Fool
- Start date
Once a Fool
First Post
Still more good stuff, but nobody wants to be team leader.
The draconian measures regarding starting time probably won't work for my group, most of them have legitimate reasons for being late. My girlfriend, for instance will always have lunch with her mother in the nursing home on that day and will, consequently, always be late. Even so, I have to figure out how to maximize our game time without alienating anyone.
As for attentiveness, I've been taking a new aproach with this campaign from any I've run in the past; that being, I've been assuming that the PCs' actions and attitudes mirror the players' (so, if, for instance, they haven't been paying attention to what an NPC has been up to for the past twenty-five minutes, I assume their characters haven't, either.)
The draconian measures regarding starting time probably won't work for my group, most of them have legitimate reasons for being late. My girlfriend, for instance will always have lunch with her mother in the nursing home on that day and will, consequently, always be late. Even so, I have to figure out how to maximize our game time without alienating anyone.
As for attentiveness, I've been taking a new aproach with this campaign from any I've run in the past; that being, I've been assuming that the PCs' actions and attitudes mirror the players' (so, if, for instance, they haven't been paying attention to what an NPC has been up to for the past twenty-five minutes, I assume their characters haven't, either.)
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
If you have eight people consistently show up, you could split the group. I used to have this problem, except people didn't consistently show up, so no splitting could occur.
Nyaricus
First Post
I have DMed big groups in the past year and a half I've DMed, and I've found it's a hard path to tread sometimes. Here are some reflections:
1. Be firm about getting into the game. While D&D is a social game, and it's time to 'hang out' with a bunch of people you might not otherwise be with (which can be good or bad depending on where you're standing) things can and do get off track easily. You don't have to be "draconian" but encourage people to be in character, etc. Starting off with a "What Happened Last Session" has worked for me, and I need to get more into the habit of having that start-up. It gets the juices going for D&D, IMO.
2. Limit excess stuff. Music should be somehting appropriate for D&D - I've found that movie soundtracks or power metal works really well, but just other music gets off-topic ("I want to listen to X" "How about Z" "Wait a second, I have Y's album in my car --lemme go get it". If you play music at you games, the DM should also be in charge of switching CDs etc on top of that. And tell players to mute/turn off cell phones and ONLY take emergency/really important calls.
3. Food and drinks - while drinking is fine (hopfully non-alc; especially the DM
) and should probably be encouraged, food should not be lying around. I know it's a seterio type of gamers to have Cheetos and Mt. Dew, but honestly when you're munching down it REALLY does get distracting. And it's even easier with shorter games (like yours, Fool). If you have longer sessions like I do, when ordering/cooking food it's best to set aside an hour or so to eat and chit-chat (not in the gaming area, hopfully, since greasy fingers are the bane of gaming books) and relax - and then go back to it.
4. Late Players should have their PC played until they get there, and when they do arrive don't make a big fuss of it (hopefully they called ahead, however).
5. Absent players should be booted if it becomes a real problem. If they simply don't have the time to show up, you shouldn't have the time to ask if they wish to come.
6. Encourage PCs that mesh well together - don't have a party of Chaotic Dumbs running around doing random dumb crap, or a party of Neutral Evils running around killing people. Have "team players" and if one person continually makes a character which doesn't encourage this, have a talk with them - you may find it worth the while.
7. Definitly a good thing that you start off at level 1 - that way they can see their characters building up in power rather than trying to figure out how their wizard 1/fighter 6 +8 BAB came from, and what's their max skills ranks in Craft: Basketweaving are. If new players come in, my rule of thumb is the same with characters made after a PC dies - you come back one level lower than the parties highest level. IE, a party with 3 level 6s and one 7 gets in a fighter and one of the 6s die - his new character is rolled up as a level 6 character. Say the level 7 dies, he comes back as a level 6. Say a new player joins, well then her PC will be level 6. It's just easy bookkeeping, and it works okay.
8. Ruthlessly take out disruptive players. If they are people you care about, have a talk with them first to try to straighten thigns out. I have had to do this with a few players who were just jerks (One of my players continually got punched in the arm from this guy and I got a highlighter in my frickin' eye when the one guy tossed it to "check my reflex save" - too bad I was flat footed
). Also, you may have a few wallflowers in your group - those who are "just there". For them, encourage them as much as you can, but if they seem a lost cause, consider cutting them - it'll help streamline your groups size factor and free up more space for the players who are really into it to shine. With new players, this is really hard to see, you you might have to wait awhile to do this, Fool.
9. Try to squeeze in larger sessions. A nice side-product of this (if you can get it to work) if that if you can get in the good gamers into this longer session, you weed out the worse ones, which is win-win for you and the other players.
I think that's all I can say for my experiences with larger groups. I am now limiting myself to 6 Player/Characters and 1 DM (me) and haven't been accosted for a group larger than that yet. I've Dmed with 12ish players and it gets to be a bit much - thus I've had to cut a few corners. In the end, I ahve a good core group with both my two best friends and my gf in it, along with a changing number of players - there are quite a few on hiatus right now. In any case, I hope you can take a deep breathe and look over this advice a few times and work out somehting that works for you and yours. Oh, and welcome to EN World
P.S. Once a Fool, I notice that your username also spells out an amusing acronym - O.A.F
1. Be firm about getting into the game. While D&D is a social game, and it's time to 'hang out' with a bunch of people you might not otherwise be with (which can be good or bad depending on where you're standing) things can and do get off track easily. You don't have to be "draconian" but encourage people to be in character, etc. Starting off with a "What Happened Last Session" has worked for me, and I need to get more into the habit of having that start-up. It gets the juices going for D&D, IMO.
2. Limit excess stuff. Music should be somehting appropriate for D&D - I've found that movie soundtracks or power metal works really well, but just other music gets off-topic ("I want to listen to X" "How about Z" "Wait a second, I have Y's album in my car --lemme go get it". If you play music at you games, the DM should also be in charge of switching CDs etc on top of that. And tell players to mute/turn off cell phones and ONLY take emergency/really important calls.
3. Food and drinks - while drinking is fine (hopfully non-alc; especially the DM
) and should probably be encouraged, food should not be lying around. I know it's a seterio type of gamers to have Cheetos and Mt. Dew, but honestly when you're munching down it REALLY does get distracting. And it's even easier with shorter games (like yours, Fool). If you have longer sessions like I do, when ordering/cooking food it's best to set aside an hour or so to eat and chit-chat (not in the gaming area, hopfully, since greasy fingers are the bane of gaming books) and relax - and then go back to it.4. Late Players should have their PC played until they get there, and when they do arrive don't make a big fuss of it (hopefully they called ahead, however).
5. Absent players should be booted if it becomes a real problem. If they simply don't have the time to show up, you shouldn't have the time to ask if they wish to come.
6. Encourage PCs that mesh well together - don't have a party of Chaotic Dumbs running around doing random dumb crap, or a party of Neutral Evils running around killing people. Have "team players" and if one person continually makes a character which doesn't encourage this, have a talk with them - you may find it worth the while.
7. Definitly a good thing that you start off at level 1 - that way they can see their characters building up in power rather than trying to figure out how their wizard 1/fighter 6 +8 BAB came from, and what's their max skills ranks in Craft: Basketweaving are. If new players come in, my rule of thumb is the same with characters made after a PC dies - you come back one level lower than the parties highest level. IE, a party with 3 level 6s and one 7 gets in a fighter and one of the 6s die - his new character is rolled up as a level 6 character. Say the level 7 dies, he comes back as a level 6. Say a new player joins, well then her PC will be level 6. It's just easy bookkeeping, and it works okay.
8. Ruthlessly take out disruptive players. If they are people you care about, have a talk with them first to try to straighten thigns out. I have had to do this with a few players who were just jerks (One of my players continually got punched in the arm from this guy and I got a highlighter in my frickin' eye when the one guy tossed it to "check my reflex save" - too bad I was flat footed
). Also, you may have a few wallflowers in your group - those who are "just there". For them, encourage them as much as you can, but if they seem a lost cause, consider cutting them - it'll help streamline your groups size factor and free up more space for the players who are really into it to shine. With new players, this is really hard to see, you you might have to wait awhile to do this, Fool.9. Try to squeeze in larger sessions. A nice side-product of this (if you can get it to work) if that if you can get in the good gamers into this longer session, you weed out the worse ones, which is win-win for you and the other players.
I think that's all I can say for my experiences with larger groups. I am now limiting myself to 6 Player/Characters and 1 DM (me) and haven't been accosted for a group larger than that yet. I've Dmed with 12ish players and it gets to be a bit much - thus I've had to cut a few corners. In the end, I ahve a good core group with both my two best friends and my gf in it, along with a changing number of players - there are quite a few on hiatus right now. In any case, I hope you can take a deep breathe and look over this advice a few times and work out somehting that works for you and yours. Oh, and welcome to EN World
P.S. Once a Fool, I notice that your username also spells out an amusing acronym - O.A.F
Once a Fool
First Post
Thanks for the ideas, folk. Unfortunately, the 4 hours a week I've mentioned above is a maximum for the week. We cannot game more.
The ideas for running characters during players tardiness seem sound, but I am restrained from doing this by my first parameter, which prevents me from limiting their social interaction.
The unruly players are dealt with in time by consequence and their fellow party-member's natural reactions. This is one of the nice side-affects of a large group: the newer players can look up to the seasoned ones. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to carry over enough in the rules department. The paladin, who has been with us since the beginning still doesn't seem to have a role. She's not the combatant (elf with a holy rapier). She was once the healer, but then a cleric showed up. She's not the archer anymore, a ranger has showed up (although family often keeps the player from attending).
I guess what I need are some ideas that are leaning on the outside of the box; I will not violate my first parameter, just to get some goals accomplished. All in all, the campaign is doing well, but it is wearing me out, during the sessions.
Anyway, thanks for good ideas.
The ideas for running characters during players tardiness seem sound, but I am restrained from doing this by my first parameter, which prevents me from limiting their social interaction.
The unruly players are dealt with in time by consequence and their fellow party-member's natural reactions. This is one of the nice side-affects of a large group: the newer players can look up to the seasoned ones. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to carry over enough in the rules department. The paladin, who has been with us since the beginning still doesn't seem to have a role. She's not the combatant (elf with a holy rapier). She was once the healer, but then a cleric showed up. She's not the archer anymore, a ranger has showed up (although family often keeps the player from attending).
I guess what I need are some ideas that are leaning on the outside of the box; I will not violate my first parameter, just to get some goals accomplished. All in all, the campaign is doing well, but it is wearing me out, during the sessions.
Anyway, thanks for good ideas.
Lord Ipplepop
First Post
My normal group is in the 8-12 range, so we have developed a series of table rules that help to keep things moving:
1) When you are called on, the DM will give you a silent 3-5 count. Then he starts counting aloud from 5 backwards. If you have not begun your action before he gets to 0, you stand there looking lost for the next round. That includes combat, spell casting, healking, magin item use, etc.
2) Your character must be updated before the game.
3) The game starts at (ofr us) 4:00. Thou shalt not be late. (game starts, with NO rain delays) .The first lateness is a warning, the second time you stop gaining experience points for anything that happens while you are gone. (We argues about the third one being you lose all experience for that session.)
4) Players will NOT leave the table for any reason except for the standard bathroom breaks. If you do, you lose the experience points for that period that you are gone.
5) NO out of game discussions will be had. You have time for that the other 150 hours of the week. Character discussions will be taken away from the table, and the DMwill be informed of the outcome.
6) ANy discussions with the DM will be made in written form. (We use 5x7 cards) .Write down your question or secret message, and pass it to the DM as to allow the game to continue on.
I hope some of these work for you.
1) When you are called on, the DM will give you a silent 3-5 count. Then he starts counting aloud from 5 backwards. If you have not begun your action before he gets to 0, you stand there looking lost for the next round. That includes combat, spell casting, healking, magin item use, etc.
2) Your character must be updated before the game.
3) The game starts at (ofr us) 4:00. Thou shalt not be late. (game starts, with NO rain delays) .The first lateness is a warning, the second time you stop gaining experience points for anything that happens while you are gone. (We argues about the third one being you lose all experience for that session.)
4) Players will NOT leave the table for any reason except for the standard bathroom breaks. If you do, you lose the experience points for that period that you are gone.
5) NO out of game discussions will be had. You have time for that the other 150 hours of the week. Character discussions will be taken away from the table, and the DMwill be informed of the outcome.
6) ANy discussions with the DM will be made in written form. (We use 5x7 cards) .Write down your question or secret message, and pass it to the DM as to allow the game to continue on.
I hope some of these work for you.
green slime
First Post
For a while I had a couple of players who couldn't get it through their thick skulls that having six other people sit around waiting for you to bother to turn up is extremely rude to those who are on time. No amount of talking to seemed to help. Its one thing to say you can't make it in advance, but to just turn up late or call when the time rolls round and declare "I'm gonna be late", just doesn't cut it imo.
So I started the game when they arrived, and awarded XP to those who were on time in proportion to the amount of time the others were late. If IRC, it was something like character Level * hr * 100 xp.
After a few sessions, the penny dropped and everyone started showing up on time.
So I started the game when they arrived, and awarded XP to those who were on time in proportion to the amount of time the others were late. If IRC, it was something like character Level * hr * 100 xp.
After a few sessions, the penny dropped and everyone started showing up on time.
green slime
First Post
And Lord Igglepop's second comment about the character is just too true. Spell's should be prepared, updated, understood, Items stocked, and all relevant notes up to date.
Spell prep can really, really consume game time.
Spell prep can really, really consume game time.
My 2 fish...
1) ask if one of the other players wouyld like to DM and hand over half the group to them. Perhaps work togethger as DM's to run the same plot, but different aspects...the party splits up to accomplish two things.
2) Split the group and play every other week with each group. Again...run the same campaign with different agendas for each party.
Personally I see anything more than 5 as a pain to run with. Our current group is 7 strong + GM and it gets a little bogged down. The GM wants another player. If it does come to that point, I would seriously consider splitting off and running a game myself. I just really don't like DM'ing or playing in a group so large.
Ask your players how they feel about it. If they feel it is too unwieldy and cumbersome, ask them if they would consider splitting the group. Then again, if D&D is just the vehicle to get all y'all together to socialize, don't worry so much about not getting much done and have fun.
1) ask if one of the other players wouyld like to DM and hand over half the group to them. Perhaps work togethger as DM's to run the same plot, but different aspects...the party splits up to accomplish two things.
2) Split the group and play every other week with each group. Again...run the same campaign with different agendas for each party.
Personally I see anything more than 5 as a pain to run with. Our current group is 7 strong + GM and it gets a little bogged down. The GM wants another player. If it does come to that point, I would seriously consider splitting off and running a game myself. I just really don't like DM'ing or playing in a group so large.
Ask your players how they feel about it. If they feel it is too unwieldy and cumbersome, ask them if they would consider splitting the group. Then again, if D&D is just the vehicle to get all y'all together to socialize, don't worry so much about not getting much done and have fun.
Agent Oracle
First Post
Once a Fool said:
Stop right there fool... this is a recipe for disaster, and burnout. My advice? talk to the players (all 10 if you can) and ask if any of them want to form a second gaming group, playing as a second DM.
There, you just split the party down to "regular" size.
Trust me, i had the same problem in my college gaming group. Players just kept showing up! In the end, there were 11-16 of us, and the gm, completely burned out, just threw a CR 30-ish encounter against the "super party" of 13th-15th level heroes. (it was an undead godling fetus, hell-bent on destroying reality. anyone know what CR that thing is?)
Don't let burnout happen to you! invite the party to split up. If nobody volunteers, pick one of the more intelligent types who have their own book sets and tell him/her that he/she has been promoted to the rank of Dungeon Master, offer them half the adventuring party (members of their choice) and full support for the game world.
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