To Enworld martial artists: Hung Gar vs Muay Thai vs BJJ.....

[zdanboy]

Hello!
As you may (or may not) remember, some time ago I asked what martial arts I should try training......

Most of of those who replied said that I should choose Hung Gar....and so I did.....

I have trained it for 2 months now, and I am very happy with it....the more punch, less kick approach suits me well, and the training really helps me to stay in shape....

Case in point is: I have friend who wanted to start training martial arts too.....and he narrowed his choice to the follwing:

1. Hung Gar
2. Muay Thai
3. BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu)

He asked me to help him....I am ask you to help me...which one should I recommend to my friend....???

He is quite a man...weighting 95 kg....and height 190 cm.....

He likes the BJJ, cause he heard that it is the best martial art (watched it on Pride and UFC)

Hung Gar he chose cause I came with that idea....

And Muay Thai....let's just say he likes it.....

He wants to choose the best style for self-defense.....so which ne should I recommend?

 

[kengar]

This probably isn't the kind of answer you're after, but when I started training in the martial arts years ago this was the advice I was given:

"Choose a teacher not a style."

It was some of the best advice I've ever received on any topic.

A good teacher makes all the difference. They can also tell your friend whether their classes will focus on the kinds of things he's interested in. He sounds physically fit enough to begin any of them. His personality and how well he "clicks" with a teacher and/or school will matter more.

 

[jhanzur]

90% of street fights end up on the ground.

 

[olethros]

vs.

Here's my take on it.

Muay Thai: Excellent standing up fighting, not really any groundfighting or any weapons

BJJ: Excellent groundfighting, not really any standing up fighting or weapons

Hung Gar: Mix of standing up fighting weapons with some gorundfighting if you have a good sifu.

BJJ has been devstating in the UFC type fighting which relies on 1 on 1 confinement to a ring (no running) around and no weapons or really dirty fighting. Ask this question: Can you use BJJ against multiple attackers? Can you use BJJ against someone with a weapon? I'm not sure myself, but ask those questions.

Muay Thai is devestating in similar arena as BJJ (1 on 1 confinement to a ring) but has no real groundfighting or weapons.

Hung Gar will be ablanced mix but I have to agree with Kengar that a good instructor makes all the difference. Kung Fu will require more training to become as street effective but you will be alittle more well balanced. You also get weapons training which comes in handy. Some may argue that training in archaic weapons is useless in the modern day and age but realize that sword techniques can be used with an umbrella or fan techniques with a large cell phone, rolled up magazine, or pen.

I will admit that I do study Kung Fu so I may sem biased but I have great respect for MT and BJJ. MT is as powerful, if not more so, than boxing (probably the best fists only fighting art hands down). BJJ has no match if it goes to the ground.

PS- Jhanzur, where did you get that statistic? Can you point me to a journal article or AP story? I see that number alot but nobody has ever properly referenced it.

 

[Umbran]

90% of street fights end up on the ground.

Supposedly, though I wonder who did the research to come up with that number.

In any case, I will put forth the suggestion that folks who choose their martial art for purposes of winning street fights are probably choosing for the wrong reasons. As one teacher I've had remarked, "If you're here to learn how to trash bozos, please go study Tai Qwan Leep."

I'll second kengar's suggestion. The teacher is more important than the style. Your own motivation is more important than the style. The style is a means, not an end.

 

[Oni]

As said above the teacher is one of the most important things.


However something else that you might consider. If you could train together you can learn a great deal. Having someone else around that is studying the same thing and is a good friend can really inspire you to train harder and push you to do better than you might have done otherwise. If you two hang out often, then suddenly you are not leaving all of your training at the dojo or whatever have you door. This may or may not be a factor, but it wouldn't hurt to mention this to your friend.

 

[LGodamus]

If he wants pure Self Defense then none of the arts you have listed are appropriate...... although Hung gar would be the closest of the three.....Also you should consider ONI's statement seriously......if you train in a dojo only about 4-10 hours a week you will never be great...You must train much more than that, however it is easier and takes less self discipline if you have a friend who does the same.....both of you will advance much faster.

Now on to points on each style:
Hung Gar: Firstly teacher choice is more critical in this art than the other 2. also as with any kung fu style it will take you much more time before you learn effective manuevers most of your beggining time will be spent strengthening your body and will.Also be aware that unless you are chinese you will never be taught the most advanced and closely guarded secrets of any kung fu art.

BJJ: First of all I am not putting down BJJ as I practiced it for years...but BJJ has an inflated reputation which comes partly from its practicioners (I too used to do this) and partly from its success in the ring. However, success in the ring is not idicitive of street effectiveness....sometimes quite the opposite. Many of the techniques you learn in man to mangrappling will get you killed on the street or when fighting for your life.

Muay Thai: sport thai boxing has many of the downsides as BJJ in that it is optimized for the ring and not the street, with the difference being it is stand up and Bjj is on the ground, but sport thai boxing is not what Original Muay Thai is....sadly though most of the Original is gone now; as tends to happen with martial arts over time. One of thai boxings good points is massive power ,though. Many of the techniques you will learn and practice will knock a man unconcious with just one combination or even a single blow.

 

[ancient_ones]

It depends upon your friends tastes, Would he be interested in a slower more tradition approach to fighting? empty hand and weapon froms of hung gar. Or would he prefer a more excellerated high intensity competion style of Muay Thai or BJJ. Like was mentioned earlier it really boils down to the instructor.

 

[Fenros]

I agree with everyone else when they say the teacher is THE most important. Take Karate in America for instance. There's a notion that it has become this chain store-McDonald's style-local dojo-drop off my six year old kid-type care bear-place. And sadly, its mostly true. However, its not the fault of the martial art style. You find a good Karate teacher and you'll get good training from him.

With things like Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung Fu, they get this perception as being silly out dated regimens that get beat in the street. But a good teacher in any of these style will teach you a version of his style that IS effective in the street. He'll even admit and point out the faults/weaknesses of his own style so you know not to make a mistake. And then teach you something to make up/fill in for that weakness in the original style.

I also agree on taking martial arts together as friends. Personally, and that's just me, I would try to get your friend to take Hung Gar with you. But let's say he doesn't choose Hung Gar, you two should still practice and spar together on weekends or something. Figure things out for yourself. What works, what doesn't.

Not to say style is totally unimportant. Because some have better foundations or more flexibilities than others. But the teacher is important. And what's just as important next to the teacher? The person himself. Or herself. Because, even great teachers have poor students.

But back to your original question:

BJJ I agree is over-hyped. I personally don't judge a martial art on how well it does in UFC (and the like). There are tons of street fighters in the world that would never get on tv that would trounce these guys. But getting on tv and matching up against other fighters (with rules and parameters) isn't their thing.

Any JJ is good for grappling. Doesn't have to be BJJ. But like the others said above, you may be training slightly to much to one side in sacrifice of another. Best goal is to take something that will give you both. A great Hung Gar teacher should do that. But, I'm not sure how many great Hung Gar teachers there are in the world. Or if any of them made it over to Warsaw. Its possible.

Muay Thai is totally devastating. And street effective. But, its heavily reliant on conditioning and power. Not something you may have as you get older. Why not study something that you can still use when you're 50? Because eventually, you will be.

I vote for Hung Gar. But only if that teacher is good. One that knows the difference between tradition and actual street application. One who's experienced.

 

[takyris]

I've taken Kenpo for about 12 years. It all comes down to the teacher that works for you, the style that'll inspire you to keep working at it, and what you want.

I like punch/kick stuff more than I like wrestling. Kenpo has never been boring for me. I learned a bit of Jujitsu as a complementary art, but by and large, Kenpo is great for me.

(Side note: Treat cross-training like D&D multiclassing. Add one or two levels of additional arts while sticking with one primary. Don't divide them evenly into halves or thirds. Trust me on this. Really. The cool stuff is at the top. What I'm learning today is as acrobatic and graceful and Jet-Li-ish as I could ever have hoped for, despite the rather utilitarian practicality of Kenpo's early belts.)

What does your friend think he wants? What does he really want? If he really wants practical self-defense, then that's fine. But almost everyone SAYS that they want practical self-defense, and then they're annoyed when their art doesn't feature kicks to the head. I was motivated by self-defense, but I also wanted a good workout and something that would help me with self-discipline and concentration. Kenpo was good for those things. At least, MY school was. Your nearby Kenporium might not be. Ditto BJJ, Muay Thai, and Hung Gar.

The teacher is critical. There are great BJJ people. There are lousy BJJ people. Some jujitsu works great on the street. Other jujitsu, not so much. Working in the ring is a good predictor of working in the ring, and that's it. Now, some of the Gracies are just fantastic. I firmly believe that they could clobber ten guys in a subway. But I also believe that their martial art didn't determine that for them. That's just them. The martial arts threads are full of "Bruce Lee versus BJJ" hypotheses. The best one that I heard was that if Bruce Lee were still alive, he'd be good friends with the Gracies, and both sides would train with and learn from each other. A fight between them would lean heavily on luck and circumstance.

Any decent art from any decent teacher will give your friend what he needs. I think that training with a friend is the best way to go -- that's how I started out, and it got both of us to Blue Belt really quickly. We practiced after school, at lunch, in the park on weekends. I made a lot more progress than I would have made on my own. By the time my friend moved, I was set to continue onward with the foundation we'd laid together.

Anyway, blabbering. Hope this helps.

-Tacky