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Tome of Battle: Bo9S classes in actual play?
- Thread starter Mort
- Start date
Nifft said:
Don't think so.
Best pre-reqs go to Weapon Supremacy:
Weapon Supremacy:
Prereqs: Proficiency with selected weapon. Greater Weapon Focus with selected weapon. Greater Weapon Specialisation with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Weapon Specialisation with selected weapon, Weapon Mastery with damage type of selected weapon, fighter level 18th.
Ooh. Steadfast Determination also says you don't automatically fail Fort saves on natural 1s!
Cheers!
MerricB said:Don't you have PH2, (P)SH? Believe me, it totally changes how effective a fighter is at the upper levels. It's essential for any fighter.
White Raven Tactics
This stance allows you, as a swift action, to change the initiative order of one ally so they act immediately after you. It's a nice trick, but often not more than that.
It really wants you to delay until after your friend. It's quite nice when you do that.
Note that a 6th level fighter can get WRT by expending two feats (one on a WR manuever, one on WRT).
Cheers!
Maybe I'm not remembering right... but isn't WRT a 3rd level stance? Doesn't this mean you need to be a 12th level fighter to pick it up?
I do think Warblade gets too much if you stack it up to Fighter or Barbarian directly. But I dont, and wouldnt.
I think it makes a GREAT replacement class. As does Crusader and Swordsage. I think junking fighter for warblade, ditching Paladin for Crusader and junking monk for Swordsage will make my own homebrew more fun and more interesting both. Monks never really fit, but swordsage can, Paladins are too narrow and dont serve CG/LE/CE without variants and kludges, but Crusaders do, and Fighters are weaklings, and Warblades arent.
I like that. I think they are too dippable, too frontloaded, but thats fixable by removing some of the classes you'd dive into by dipping. With no fighter to dip, Warblade is less dippable.
I think it makes a GREAT replacement class. As does Crusader and Swordsage. I think junking fighter for warblade, ditching Paladin for Crusader and junking monk for Swordsage will make my own homebrew more fun and more interesting both. Monks never really fit, but swordsage can, Paladins are too narrow and dont serve CG/LE/CE without variants and kludges, but Crusaders do, and Fighters are weaklings, and Warblades arent.
I like that. I think they are too dippable, too frontloaded, but thats fixable by removing some of the classes you'd dive into by dipping. With no fighter to dip, Warblade is less dippable.
Was going to post this in a separate thread, but this one seems to have gotten a second wind.
Ok, I just ran the first part of the Red Hand of Doom (excellent adventure btw) with a crusader, a warblade, a swordsage and a duskblade.
Some random thoughts:
Despite all the hype, the warblade definately came off the weakest. While not bad, he just couldn't compete with the Crusader's awesome ability to keep going, or the swordsages versatility. The duskblade kept up nicely and seemed to have enough spells per day that she kept pace with the per encounter mechanic of the ToB classes.
Everyone had fun, but I could tell that the crusader's player was truly having a blast. He just loved being such a huge damage sponge, while still being usefull tactically.
Lots of posts about the swordsage being weak, but I just didn't see it. The halfling swordsage focused on desert wind, shadow hand and setting sun techniques and was truly effective on the field. Of the three ToB classes he was the only one to have any range capability and he really took advantage of this (though even his range capability paled in comparison to the duskblade, which in turn wasn't that much - will have to see how this plays out in the future).
Despite all the talk of the ToB classes being overkill, the duskblade really shone. Plus she enjoyed being able to play a true fighter/mage at early levels.
I was worried about the lack of a cleric for the group, but the blitz nature of their tactics and the crusader using judicious healing during combat has held its own. Will have to see how it goes later in the adventure.
Ok, I just ran the first part of the Red Hand of Doom (excellent adventure btw) with a crusader, a warblade, a swordsage and a duskblade.
Some random thoughts:
Despite all the hype, the warblade definately came off the weakest. While not bad, he just couldn't compete with the Crusader's awesome ability to keep going, or the swordsages versatility. The duskblade kept up nicely and seemed to have enough spells per day that she kept pace with the per encounter mechanic of the ToB classes.
Everyone had fun, but I could tell that the crusader's player was truly having a blast. He just loved being such a huge damage sponge, while still being usefull tactically.
Lots of posts about the swordsage being weak, but I just didn't see it. The halfling swordsage focused on desert wind, shadow hand and setting sun techniques and was truly effective on the field. Of the three ToB classes he was the only one to have any range capability and he really took advantage of this (though even his range capability paled in comparison to the duskblade, which in turn wasn't that much - will have to see how this plays out in the future).
Despite all the talk of the ToB classes being overkill, the duskblade really shone. Plus she enjoyed being able to play a true fighter/mage at early levels.
I was worried about the lack of a cleric for the group, but the blitz nature of their tactics and the crusader using judicious healing during combat has held its own. Will have to see how it goes later in the adventure.
blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
It's a 3rd level boost, not a stance. One WR maneuver prerequisite.interwyrm said:
-blarg
Lordgrae
First Post
I'm not crunching numbers, I'm just going off what I've seen as a DM with those classes in play. The Swordsage has never been hurting for damage. One of his newest maneuvers is the one that gives his attack a fort save, fail is death, pass is an additional 20d6. He also has the 100dmg Fire AE.
I'm aware the PHBII feats help the fighter out a lot. But, I don't think they can make up what the Swordsage gains in versatility.
There is also the fact that I've never seen my power hungry players take too many levels in fighter, but as soon as ToB was here two of them pounced on it immediately. One is a power-gamer and the other is just good at character optimization. Hehe
I'm aware the PHBII feats help the fighter out a lot. But, I don't think they can make up what the Swordsage gains in versatility.
There is also the fact that I've never seen my power hungry players take too many levels in fighter, but as soon as ToB was here two of them pounced on it immediately. One is a power-gamer and the other is just good at character optimization. Hehe
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