Tome of Battle: Book of 9 Swords - Things to watch out for?

[castro3nw]

Since you don't have to wear the item all the time, it's not like it's going to waste an item slot when you don't have the maneuver Readied, right? But when you want to Ready it, you can put on the item and meditate / practice for 5 minutes.

Well... Looking back at the book, it's one of those "Wear me for 24 hours, then you get effects" type items. Sorry I either missed it earlier, or didn't think it as important to the question.

I still like the idea of choosing which way to play it each time you equip it, though... Any further thoughts?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Oh, and for reference: The two 10th-level orcish barbarians in the party were more obscenely damaging and tough than my half-giant swordsage 5/psychic warrior 4.

They had something like twice his HP, similar AC I think, and almost twice his BAB (if the campaign had only gone long enough for them to gain 1 more level, they would've been getting a third attack per round). I think I was capable of dealing more damage for 1 or 2 rounds, and that's it; their extra damage made up for that after a few rounds at most. And they could Rage more often than I could use augmented Expansion.

Orcish Barbarians, eh? What were their Will saves, though?

 

[Arkhandus]

Dunno, never got more than a brief glance at their sheets. The DM, who is a munchkin (well, I suppose he actually roleplays some, so that makes him a powergamer instead?), made those orc barbarians for the players (the newbies). Think they had something like 12 or so in Wisdom, with Str and Con maxed and 14 or 16 Dex before magic items.

The DM built them to be offensive machines, though. Most likely if they succumbed to any mind control it would've been up to the party's Healer/Warmage/Mystic Theurge to try removing the mind control. I dunno, we were a strange group.

 

[Nail]

Back on topic for a brief moment:

I currently DM for a group with a Warblade 6/Monk(undying way) 2 and a Ftr 8. (Humans, 32 pt buy, the Ftr has been house ruled to get 1 bonus feat per level, the WB has been house ruled to d10 HD and no Weapon Aptitude). The group has played since 1st level, though the Warblade/Mnk has only been with us since lvl 3. Both players are experienced gamers and competent PC builders.

The Warblade is more powerful, though not by as much as I feared. (The Ftr house rule helps.) Some of the Warblade's maneuvers have required me to change my DMing style: Moment of Perfect Mind and Insightful Strike, in particular.

I am positive there will be other problematic maneuvers at higher levels that I'll have to deal with. WR maneuvers, Tiger Claw maneuvers, and higher level Insightful Strikes.

Currently, the Ftr player does not feel out-classed. We'll see....

 

[Rystil Arden]

Back on topic for a brief moment:

I currently DM for a group with a Warblade 6/Monk(undying way) 2 and a Ftr 8. (Humans, 32 pt buy, the Ftr has been house ruled to get 1 bonus feat per level, the WB has been house ruled to d10 HD and no Weapon Aptitude). The group has played since 1st level, though the Warblade/Mnk has only been with us since lvl 3. Both players are experienced gamers and competent PC builders.

The Warblade is more powerful, though not by as much as I feared. (The Ftr house rule helps.) Some of the Warblade's maneuvers have required me to change my DMing style: Moment of Perfect Mind and Insightful Strike, in particular.

I am positive there will be other problematic maneuvers at higher levels that I'll have to deal with. WR maneuvers, Tiger Claw maneuvers, and higher level Insightful Strikes.

Currently, the Ftr player does not feel out-classed. We'll see....

For those who don't know to what Nail refers, if my memory serves, his houserule is that Fighters get bonus feats at every level.

 

[Nifft]

Well... Looking back at the book, it's one of those "Wear me for 24 hours, then you get effects" type items. Sorry I either missed it earlier, or didn't think it as important to the question.

I still like the idea of choosing which way to play it each time you equip it, though... Any further thoughts?

I'm not all that familiar with the items -- they've seen no use in my games so far. But I'll take a look and offer an opinion later.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Videssian]

For those who don't know to what Nail refers, if my memory serves, his houserule is that Fighters get bonus feats at every level.

Yep, that's right. I know this, since I'm the Warblade in said campaign

There's also some oddness in that magic items in his campaign use a completely different system, so that's bound to have effects on the balance.

 

[Videssian]

Back on topic for a brief moment:

I currently DM for a group with a Warblade 6/Monk(undying way) 2 and a Ftr 8. (Humans, 32 pt buy, the Ftr has been house ruled to get 1 bonus feat per level, the WB has been house ruled to d10 HD and no Weapon Aptitude). The group has played since 1st level, though the Warblade/Mnk has only been with us since lvl 3. Both players are experienced gamers and competent PC builders.

The Warblade is more powerful, though not by as much as I feared. (The Ftr house rule helps.) Some of the Warblade's maneuvers have required me to change my DMing style: Moment of Perfect Mind and Insightful Strike, in particular.

I am positive there will be other problematic maneuvers at higher levels that I'll have to deal with. WR maneuvers, Tiger Claw maneuvers, and higher level Insightful Strikes.

Currently, the Ftr player does not feel out-classed. We'll see....

I want to add that Weapon Aptitude has been a non-issue. To make use of it in a way that would be worth the investment in feats would significantly lower his effectiveness in other ways.. I do think though that Fighters should have it (an expanded version of it even).. and the 1 ftr feat/lvl for fighters instead of 1 per 2 lvls also gives the fighter a needed boost. And I think that a single-classed fighter in your campaign with a few dips into maneuvers/stances (he can afford the feats) could be even more effective maybe than either... though I haven't run the numbers, and don't plan to

 

[Stalker0]

Back on topic for a brief moment:

I currently DM for a group with a Warblade 6/Monk(undying way) 2 and a Ftr 8. (Humans, 32 pt buy, the Ftr has been house ruled to get 1 bonus feat per level, the WB has been house ruled to d10 HD and no Weapon Aptitude). The group has played since 1st level, though the Warblade/Mnk has only been with us since lvl 3.

So you greatly beefed up the fighter, have a warblade mixed with a weaker fighter type (monk) and with nerf to the warblade and its STILL stronger than the fighter!!? Now that's saying something

 

[Arkhandus]

Not really. We don't know how they were built. And more feats for a Fighter doesn't necessarily make them better, unless there are a lot more feats around that specifically power them up in their specialty. A fighter that just has options between Combat Expertise and Power Attack and archery isn't really that focused in his effectiveness. Even one who focuses just on the CE feat tree will basically be picking up feats for 3 or 4 different tactics, rather than reinforcing his offensive or defensive power in one area.

If that Warblade started out with Monk as his first 2 levels, then he'd have access to higher-level maneuvers a bit sooner (same as a pure Warblade, just 1 character level later). And it's not like he has several levels of Monk, it's just 2. The Undying Way fighting style for monks sucks, but the +2 on Concentration checks could be useful for Insightful Strike and some other Diamond Mind maneuvers, so it may not be a total loss (and Evasion helps). He may be a tad less offensively powerful, but his saving throws will be superior and he may be more effective with Diamond Mind strikes and counters. So I dunno if it's a benefit or not.