D&D 5E Tome Pact is dicey

[Joe Liker]

First, let me say I'm totally on board with the increased rarity of magic items and such in 5e, including acquired spells and what have you.

However, when you are a Tome Pact warlock, this puts a huge amount of your subclass's primary feature in the hands of the DM. If your DM is forgetful or stingy, or if he/she just doesn't get that rituals are the thing that sets you apart from other warlocks, you might go your whole life with only two 1st-level rituals in your Book of Shadows.

Furthermore, if you are playing in a published campaign such as HotDQ, your DM might not see fit to augment the treasure drops as printed, and while I haven't read that campaign (because I'm playing in it), my suspicion is that there are few, if any, ritual books to be found as loot. (Feel free to spoil this point if I'm wrong.)

I don't feel like the player should have to negotiate or beg for more utility in his subclass's one and only stand-out feature. The cantrips are nice, mainly from a role-play perspective (Thaumaturgy for a hell-lock? Yes, please!), but if you never get more than the first two rituals, you're going to end up wishing you'd chosen Blade or Chain.

I'm just sayin', if I were to choose this path for my character, I'd try to get the DM to agree in advance to one new ritual every odd level at the very least. IMO, they should have made it part of the invocation.

 

[Crothian]

This sounds like an issue with the DM more then the class. As DM I can screw over any character I want to so it is not limited to just these guys. I get what your saying but don't blame the class when its the DM that is causing the potential problems.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Unless I'm misremembering, you can copy rituals from scrolls also. Potions and scrolls tend to be the most common magic items in published adventures, as well as in random item tables.

If you capture a wizard's spellbook, you can copy out of there too. You won't even have to fight with a wizard in your party over it, as it won't destroy the spell in the book when you do it.

But yeah, as in most things, find out what sort of campaign your DM is making before creating a character. It saves a lot of trouble later.

 

[Grazzt]

If your DM is forgetful ...

No such thing. A DM never forgets.

 

[GameDoc]

No such thing. A DM never forgets.

"A Dungeon Master is never forgetful, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he overgenerous. He includes in the treasure precisely what he intends to."

 

[GameDoc]

This doe seem like a DM issue. I think it's incumbent on a DM to know what type of items each PC in the group needs to acquire and provide opportunities for it to happen.

Unless I'm misremembering, you can copy rituals from scrolls also...

If you capture a wizard's spellbook, you can copy out of there too.

I am also avoiding reading the book because I am set to play through as a character, but I would echo this with the caveat that the DM should make sure that these items contain spells that can be cast as rituals and are a good fit with the warlock character's overall gestalt.

 

[Thank Dog]

However, when you are a Tome Pact warlock, this puts a huge amount of your subclass's primary feature in the hands of the DM.

You mean, like just about every other aspect of 5e?

Tome Pact is, by far, the most powerful of the pacts. Sure, the other pacts give fairly straightfoward benefits enshrined in their descriptions, however they're both pretty piss-weak in comparison to even the base Tome Pact benefits. Pact of the Blade for instance essentially requires you to be a melee caster and forgo your most powerful attack, that being Eldritch Blast boosted by Agonizing Blast. And Pact of the Chain is almost laughable.

So like most things, if you've got a decent group and DM, this really isn't an issue. And even if you haven't, the basic aspects of the pact are already pretty good by comparison.

 

[drjones]

It's more or less true of every character. If you are a dex fighter and the bad guys super magic weapon does not happen to be a rapier..

When I DM I try to go for half loot that is just what characters want and half random stuff that I think is fun or might inspire some new tactics.

 

[frankthedm]

Tome Pact is, by far, the most powerful of the pacts. Sure, the other pacts give fairly straightfoward benefits enshrined in their descriptions, however they're both pretty piss-weak in comparison to even the base Tome Pact benefits. Pact of the Blade for instance essentially requires you to be a melee caster and forgo your most powerful attack, that being Eldritch Blast boosted by Agonizing Blast. And Pact of the Chain is almost laughable...

Sounds like the rituals are just icing on the cake, so even if none are found, the Tome option is still more than balanced Vs the other choices.

 

[doctorhook]

You mean, like just about every other aspect of 5e?

Tome Pact is, by far, the most powerful of the pacts. Sure, the other pacts give fairly straightfoward benefits enshrined in their descriptions, however they're both pretty piss-weak in comparison to even the base Tome Pact benefits. Pact of the Blade for instance essentially requires you to be a melee caster and forgo your most powerful attack, that being Eldritch Blast boosted by Agonizing Blast. And Pact of the Chain is almost laughable.

You're making a lot of subjective claims here without backing most of them up, and you sound more than a little hyperbolic/optimizey. Why exactly are chain-locks "piss-weak"? Does "piss-weak" mean they're broken-underpowered, or do you mean that tome-locks are broken-overpowered by comparison?

Just a heads-up before you respond: If you think something is actually broken, please say so, and say why. If you just think you'd never choose to play one because you find them underpowered, then, with respect, please don't let the door hit you on the way out.