Top 10 odd D&D weapons

[lukelightning]

And you really have to watch out for half-rust-monster-leopards!

 

[big dummy]

And you really have to watch out for half-rust-monster-leopards!

ROFL!

 

[DreadPirateMurphy]

Dinosaurs: Faerun has them: Chult, + some areas of Heartlands. Eberron has a more integrated dino-halfling culture. Not sure about Greyhawk.

Side note from the thread, but IIRC, isn't module X1, The Isle of Dread, set in Greyhawk? That had dinosaurs.

It occurs to me that we're arguing armor piercing teeth in a setting where "swallow whole" is a viable tactic for a fairly sizable number of beasts. That ignores the attacks that turn you to stone, make you insane, eat through your armor with acid, burn you to a crisp, or zap you with a million volts. Let's face it...your average D&D campaign setting is more like Harry Harrison's Deathworld than any reasonable ecology.

 

[Agent Oracle]

I have to agree that a leopard isn't likely to be able to really hurt a guy wearing full plate. Then again, a leopard isn't exactly a large animal. Somewhere in the neighbourhood of 180 pounds or so IIRC. Ok, it's a big bloody cat, but, compared to monsters, it's a minor problem.

I'd be much more worried about that giant picking me up and beating me like a pinata. Sure, my armor might be in one piece at the end of things, but, all that does is provide a jello mold for my bloody corpse.

Okay, you want armor that's proof against "klarge" animals? the largest land-based predator on earth is the kodiac bear. There's a guy who'se allready proven that armor can be used against bears.

THis is Troy Hurtubise, and beside him is the Ursus Mark VI.

The Ursus Mk 6 weighs in at a healthy 67.5 kg (148 lbs) and has been tested against all manner of damage possible, INCLUDING bears. The armor is multiple layers of mesh composites and steel, and is -bulletproof -truck proof -axe proof -baseball bat proof -and above all else, Kodiac bear proof.

Kodiacs are LARGE sized critters

They weigh about 1,500 pounds, eat anything they want to, and can run down deer in short bursts. They are the ultimate in melee competitors on earth.

And they cna't get inside that suit.

Now granted, he was battered around a bit, but because of all the padding on the inside of the suit, he didn't even get scratched.

 

[big dummy]

They weigh about 1,500 pounds, eat anything they want to, and can run down deer in short bursts. They are the ultimate in melee competitors on earth.
.

Great post Oracle...

and I've got just the right weapon for facing that monster.... a Viking "hewing spear"

BD

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You should watch some SCA combat some time. A 250 lb guy with 50 lbs of armor charging down a hill to smack someone in the head with a 3 lb solid wooden club can generate a lot of force too, and these guys barely even notice it. And they are wearing helmets made of as little as 16 guage simple mild steel plate for the most part.

The idea of a leopard being able to knock out a man wearing a helmet like that with some kind of bruce-lee punch is laughable to me.

First, I'm pretty familar with SCA combat as an observer- I have had several buddies who are participants- and the fact remains that these guys are still not trying to kill each other. In fact, SCA rules are designed to prevent people from killing each other.

As for the leopard, that "punch" is what they call the cat's preferred method of attack. They kill by ambush, pouncing from above, using powerful leg muscles to thrust their whole mass into the head and neck of their opponents, driving the prey to the ground and frequently resulting in a snapped neck. If no break occurs, the cat grabs the throat and bites, severing blood vessels, & collapsing the trachea- simultaneously exsanguinating & suffocating the victim. Then they take their prey back into the trees for storage & dining.

Now, the guy in plate armor has the advantage of having the armor restict his neck's movement, so breaking the neck is unlikely. However, that kind of mass hitting a helmeted football or hockey player frequently causes severe concussions and unconsciousness.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I know what a morstshlag is, I've been studying WMA for 7 years. It's a good way to attack armor with a tempered steel quillion using significant leverage. However, while that show can surmise as to what they think would happen...

I posted a definition because not everyone knows what a "murder blow" is, not to insult your intelligence. I know I only found out about them a couple of years ago.

As for the rest, it wasn't mere surmise- they were using ballistics jelly models that are used to study the effects of weapons on flesh & bone- the same way they tested armor piercing arrows and bolts versus breastplates in another episode. The disruption caused by the "murder blow" was significant, consistent with blows capable of causing unconsciousness.

The caveat, though, was that they person striking the blow had to take several whacks at the test helm in order to land a good, solid strike on it. The helm's strength and curvature actually turned most of the blows into "love taps" that might hurt or annoy, but wouldn't adversely affect the blow's victim. Such a blow was probably a rarely attempted, and certainly rarely successful- solid hits to the head were much easier to land with weapons like maces, flails and picks.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

BTW: As pointed out in the movie The Prophecy, the BEST weapon against a huge bear is, of course, a rocket launcher- which all forest rangers carry, right?

 

[big dummy]

The helm's strength and curvature actually turned most of the blows into "love taps" that might hurt or annoy, but wouldn't adversely affect the blow's victim. Such a blow was probably a rarely attempted, and certainly rarely successful- solid hits to the head were much easier to land with weapons like maces, flails and picks.

Well thats just the point those helmets, particularly the later era ones, were designed to make blows slip off of them without landing solidly.

And the problem with those tests is exactly how much of and what type of padding and suspension they acutally use under the helmet. For one thing, it wasn't at all unusual to wear a steel arming cap under a larger great helm.

Also A flail, mace or pick with an iron or steel striking payload a LOT more mass density and hardness than a bears paw, let alone a panther.

Here is one example. I weigh 290 lbs, and I can bench press considerably more than that. In our group, unlike SCA, we make no attempt whatsoever to pull our blows, nor do we have any rules as to where you can hit. "Safety last" you might say.

Our weapons are nominally padded to help prevent broken bones, but have solid cores and are realistically heavy (3-4 lbs) and strong enough that they regularly split 1/2" plywood SCA type shields for example, and bend alumnium ones. I broke a 2"x4" stud with one last week. Fighting with these without helmets leads to routine knockouts and concussions. Which is why we always wear helmets.

And the best helmet we've been able to find so far in terms of overall safety is a replica of an old Renaissance era Italian Barbutte, which looks something like an old cylon helmet.

If you watch this little video of our old New Orleans sparring group in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D6Iw7iqzM0

Right at about minute 1:02 you will see me fighting a guy in a tournament. I end up displacing his cut and then countering with an oberhau, nailing him in the back of the head almost as hard as I could with one of our heavy wasters. I wasn't trying to hurt the guy but to get the blow landed before his near simultaneous counterstrike I had to strike fast, and therefore hard. The instant of the strike is actually shown twice for emphasis because it was unusually hard. He is wearing that barbutte which I believe is only 18 guage steel, plus a (period realistic) padded arming cap underneath. He didn't even get a headache from that blow. Without the helmet he would have beeen unconsciuous and quite possibly had a seisure. In fact that helmet seems to completely protect him from any injuries, he often can't even tell when he gets hit in the head.

Even with one of the lacrosse helmets we usually wear it would have meant staggering away for a 5 minute sit-down and possibly no more sparring for the rest of the day (which is exactly as you can see happen to another guy wearing a motorcycle helmet at minute 1:35 in the same video... he got nailed hard enough that his day was over. And thats with a helmet supposed to save your life from wrecking off of a motorbike).

Thats just one tiny example of how my experience has taught me those helmets worked bloody well.

BD

 

[Set]

The 'punch' from a cat is only to knock it's prey down. It then bites the throat, attempting to suffocate or snap the neck of it's prey, using it's claws mainly to hang on tight and prevent it from getting up / getting away.

I've raised big cats for zoos and animal parks (jaguars, tigers and lions primarily), been mauled by big cats (a leopard and a mountain lion) and even been thrown across a room by a jaguars 'playful swat' (I weighed 200 lbs at the time. It wasn't fully grown...). A 25 lb. tiger kit can generate more forward force than most adult humans. (Hint, if someone hands you a leash and says to 'take him for a walk,' what they really mean is 'pick him up and carry him back when he's finally tired of dragging you wherever the heck he wants to go...')

And that's just a cat. Bears are stronger and skeer me. If a cat (or bear) is going for a stranglehold and can't get a good grip, as it wouldn't be able to do on someone wearing a helmet or gorget, it will settle for twisting the head.

Medieval armor has absolutely no protective value against something twisting your head... (Weird car-proof exosuits, on the other hand, sure, whatever. Good luck enjoying your next nature walk wearing a 250 lbs. of wannabe-battlemech.)

People regularly underestimate the strength of animals (and much more regularly overestimate their own durability). A *swan* can snap a grown man's back with a single blow from it's soft, light and fragile hollow-boned wing. That cute little 45 lb. chimp that clung to Matthew Broderick in Project X was seven times stronger than him and could have killed him with a single blow to the head *by accident.*

When faced with an animal, your advantage is your brain. Despite being vastly stronger, usually significantly faster, and covered with protective hide and decorated with pointy killing implements, most animals don't *want* to fight a person, don't *want* to get hurt (since they live in a world with no doctors, where an injured hunter is a dead hunter) and are often pretty easy to outwit.

Unless it's a shark, and you're in the water. Then you're pretty much chum...