Touch spells and slam attacks

[rvalle]

Hello.

Is it possible for a creature that has slam attacks (Mummy) and can cast spells (as Cleric) to cast a touch spell and do a slam attack with that spell in effect?

I'm leaning to 'yes' but that the attack has to hit vs just hit touch ac. Not sure what, if any, official rule there are for it though.

Thanks,

rv

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

You could deliver a touch spell as part of a natural attack (and if it's as part of the casting, you must make concentration check as normal). In this case, you roll to hit as you would for the natural attack, generally against full AC, deal natural weapon damage, and then apply the touch spell. One thing to note is that the attack roll is now for the natural weapon, with the spell tacked on similar to an extra effect. So, to use Shocking Grasp (CL 5) as an example. If you did the touch attack with the spell as normal and got a critical hit, the spell damage would be doubled (10d6) as per Complete Arcane's weapon-like spells rule. However, in your case, if you scored a critical hit, the slam attack would do double damage but the spell would still only deal 5d6.

I have no page references off the top of my head, but that's how my group's always run it, and I'm pretty sure it's the proper ruling. In general what this means is it's not a good idea to deliver a touch spell with unarmed strike or a natural weapon unless you have good attack bonus and damage with it.

 

[Banosby]

Just to clarify, does that mean that you can cast a spell with a charge (such as shocking grasp) in the same round as when you make a natural attack with a limb holding the charge? I had always thought that you could indeed make such an attack, but that it would take two rounds to do so (one round to cast the spell, one to make the attack).

 

[frankthedm]

I had always thought that you could indeed make such an attack, but that it would take two rounds to do so (one round to cast the spell, one to make the attack).

That is how it works.

Cast first round, make the natural attack in the next round, spell becomes a 'rider' on the natural attack. You now have to hit AC to have any effect and if you crit while doing this, only the natural attack benefits from the critical.

Is it possible for a creature that has slam attacks (Mummy) and can cast spells (as Cleric) to cast a touch spell and do a slam attack with that spell in effect?

I'm leaning to 'yes' but that the attack has to hit vs just hit touch ac. Not sure what, if any, official rule there are for it though

This first came up in an early 3.0 dragon magazine IIRC.

 

[rvalle]

That is how it works.

Cast first round, make the natural attack in the next round, spell becomes a 'rider' on the natural attack. You now have to hit AC to have any effect and if you crit while doing this, only the natural attack benefits from the critical.

So you can't cast and then make a slam attack as part of the free 'touch attack' you get with the casting? Thats how I was thinking of doing it.

So: First round cast and make 1 slam attack. If you miss next round make x slam attacks with only one of them having the spell effect on it (if one or more then one hits).

rv

 

[rvalle]

Ok after thinking about it I can see where this isn't going to fly by the rules (slam attack not = touch attack). This bad guys is going to get steamrolled by the party and I was hoping to make her more interesting so she could cast + attack vs cast, next round attack and get spell off, next round dead.

I'll have to work on some other plans.

rv

 

[prospero63]

Ok after thinking about it I can see where this isn't going to fly by the rules (slam attack not = touch attack). This bad guys is going to get steamrolled by the party and I was hoping to make her more interesting so she could cast + attack vs cast, next round attack and get spell off, next round dead.

I'll have to work on some other plans.

rv

Quicken spell or DM's fiat and give the baddy some kind of supernatural type ability (probably not for all spells, but a few). I'm also fond, personally, of slapping vile damage to attacks from undead, etc. just 'cause I like the "icky evil" aspect of it (and the "no healing the damage till certain circumstances" part is pretty cool too...)

 

[rvalle]

Quicken spell or DM's fiat and give the baddy some kind of supernatural type ability (probably not for all spells, but a few). I'm also fond, personally, of slapping vile damage to attacks from undead, etc. just 'cause I like the "icky evil" aspect of it (and the "no healing the damage till certain circumstances" part is pretty cool too...)

Nice ideas! I'll have to check out that vile damage.

She already has empower spell and a rod of metamagic (Maximize). That is a deadly combo and makes some spells 'save or die' that are not normally such. I've also given her some spells from Spell Compendium to give her that 'what the heck' aspect (Hello blood to water!).

There is going to be a fight outside her room which will give her time to buff up (SR, immunity to fire, Spell Immunity, owls wis, ect, ect). I've also moved a big bad guy into the room with her and she has a few mooks running around already. With all that she might live long enough to make the fight memorialble and might be able to drive off the party and make them come back for a round 2.

There is a lich later on. If he doesn't already have Quicken Spell I'll give that to him.

Thanks guys.

rv

 

[Runestar]

It should have been covered in tome and blood, IIRC.