Tough Minions

[Rel]

I'm not too keen on the knock prone rule. It shouts to the players MINION (which is also something I do not like about how the core rules can be used).

For me, the problem is not just that they are so easy to kill, but also that the PCs are quickly given meta-gaming information that a foe is a minion and hence, they change their tactics accordingly.

This gives me an idea that I might implement. Schroedinger's Minions

So let's say I want the PC's to fight 8 bad guys. 4 are Soldiers and 4 are Minions. But when I put them out there I don't use different minis for the two types (or describe them differently if not using minis). They are all presented as simply "bad guys".

When a PC hits on then I roll on the spot an odd/even die that determines if that bad guy is a minion. If so then he's killed immediately (or bloodied if I'm using my own Tough Minion rule). If not then I just mark him as a Soldier and note the damage. Once I've determined that 4 are either Soldiers or Minions then I don't need to roll the odd/even die anymore.

Seems like this would reduce the metagame aspect of minions in some cases. I wouldn't use this for every single fight. There are plenty of situations where I think it's fine to broadcast which enemies are minions and which are not ("You see the Evil Wizard and his Hobgoblin Bodyguards by his side. Standing in front of them is a rabble of ill equipped goblins...").

 

[KarinsDad]

This gives me an idea that I might implement. Schroedinger's Minions

I definitely like the name.

 

[Nytmare]

This gives me an idea that I might implement. Schroedinger's Minions

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4t...lled-after-quantum-mechanics.html#post4099017

 

[Rel]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4t...lled-after-quantum-mechanics.html#post4099017

Awesome!

 

[Mesh Hong]

Personally, I just say: first hit bloodies, second hit kills. (If I feel that the first hit was big enough - ie. a critical or a daily power that rolls well - I just kill on first hit.)

This gets my vote, elite minions (double xp minion); first time it takes damage it is bloodied; second time it takes damage it is dead.

Nice and simple, you can use different counters for bloodied and non bloodied minions, that way it is quick and easy to apply.

If you wanted to spice them up a bit you could give elite minions +1 to up to 3 defences and a +1 attack bonus.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Another way would be to just set a 'damage threshhold' for minions. Instead of the minion having '1 hit point' a minion can have any number of hit points (but the number should be low obviously). Any attack which does less than the minion's hit points has no effect on it, or 'bloodies' it. Any damage equal or greater kills it. You need not track the minion's 'hit points' since it doesn't take cumulative damage.

This gets rid of the 'pop all the minions with the low level blast effect power' problem, yet still leaves them very simple to administer with no bookkeeping required. As long as the damage threshold for a minion is generally within the average damage output of most basic melee attacks of a PC at roughly the level of the minion, then around 50% of melee hits will kill them, but the less potent area effect spells probably won't. If a controller wants to be SURE she gets rid of the minions, then a higher level area effect will be needed.

Minions in this system could also BE bloodied, generally after surviving any hit, at which point they only require half as much damage to kill. Still requires basically no bookkeeping except a 'bloodied' marker and yet gives some level of reward for damaging them.

This also makes the really high level minions a bit less silly. I don't know about anyone else, but it always seems a bit strange that you can have a 16th level minion that pops when it takes a point of damage. Now you can give them a reasonably high threshold, say 10 or even 20 points. At those levels a fighter can harm them, and if you use the bloodied half threshold rule he can kill them almost certainly with 2 hits, but they actually have some degree of staying power.

 

[Corey_Austin]

snip

This. Think in the movie 300 terms.

Peon - Generic 1 hp. (Random persian guys)

Tougher Minion - DR 5+1/2 level. (Immortals)

"Elite" Minion - DR 10+1/2 level. (The freakshow thereafter)

Regardless of damage dealt, the first attack to break DR kills them, otherwise, they are bloodied, and die from the next attack that hits regardless of damage.


Easiest way to explain minions like this is "striking their weak point".

 

[Mengu]

I use a varioety of toughness rules for minions, depending on the minion. For instance for zombies:

They are knocked down when they are hit (unless they are hit by a radiant power or critical hit in which case they just die). If they take damage while knocked down, they die. If they start their turn while knocked down, they make a saving throw. If they fail, they make a basic attack while still prone, and die. If they make their save, they can stand up with a move action as normal, and continue to battle.

For an encounter, I made some minion acolytes. When they are hit, they are bloodied and dazed (no save), unless the hit was a critical, in which case they die. When a dazed acolyte is hit, they die.

I made some fire spirit minions. When they are hit, they are weakened (no save), unless the hit was a critical or from a cold power in which case they die. When a weakened fire spirit minion is hit, they die.

These rules can add a slight bit of complexity, but I'm usually prepared to resolve them quickly, and there are still plenty of ways for the PC's to clean them out fast.

I still use regular minions a majority of the time, and reserve these tough minions for the occasional encounter where I want a bit more durability out of the minions.