Trading healing surges for extra power usage

[Triangleman27]

I'm working on a post-apocalyptic, steampunk setting where the PCs are genetically enhanced warriors tasked to help rebuild civilization.

The enhancements allow the PCs to further tap into their physical/mental reserves; this translates mechanically to being able to spend healing surges to "recharge" encounter (1 healing surge/use) and daily (all healing surges/use) powers.

Would this break the game or add an extra strategic element?

 

[Stalker0]

Your big problem is your giving a big power boost to your defenders, who get tons of surges vs your controllers who get very few.

I think the idea can still work, just make the bonuses very small, like a +1 to attack roll for a healing surge or +1 to a skill check. Remember in 4e bonuses are rare, so even a +1 is actually pretty useful. But I think actually recharging powers is too strong.

 

[erik_the_guy]

Steampunk is low technology, with swords and steam engines, so I don't see how the characters can be genetically altered (maybe you were thinking cyberpunk?)
In any case, being able to recharge an encounter power for a healing surge isn't too broken. I would allow a daily to be recharged with only two surges, but only after a short rest (i.e. they can recharge encounter abilities in combat, and daily abilities outside of combat).
Keep in mind that your party is going to be able to dish out more damage in a shorter time frame, but they will probably not be able to reach as many milestones due to using all their healing surges. Maybe allow them to spend an action point to recover an encounter or daily power as well.

The reasons I say 2 surges for a daily power are:

• they should not be able to use a daily more than once/encounter
• spending all of their surges to regain one ability is not worth it

You might have to do some balancing when creating encounters to take into account that the PCs are more powerful. I would suggest harder encounters than normal, but not as many in a day (since the characters can use more of their resources in less time in your setting.

 

[Triangleman27]

I think the idea can still work, just make the bonuses very small, like a +1 to attack roll for a healing surge or +1 to a skill check. Remember in 4e bonuses are rare, so even a +1 is actually pretty useful. But I think actually recharging powers is too strong.

You have a point. Better for house rules to address the shortcomings of a system rather than tinker with something that's not broken to begin with.

Trading surges for dice roll bonuses is a good start. Any other 4e flaws I should know about?

 

[Mercutio01]

Steampunk is low technology, with swords and steam engines, so I don't see how the characters can be genetically altered (maybe you were thinking cyberpunk?)

You must not follow the Wold-Newton theory of superheroic interconnection. Or things like the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Genetic alteration is a known thing in many steampunk worlds, usually through selective breeding programs.

 

[Triangleman27]

You must not follow the Wold-Newton theory of superheroic interconnection. Or things like the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Genetic alteration is a known thing in many steampunk worlds, usually through selective breeding programs.

I was gonna mention that the most iconic steampunk literature dealt with time travel, alien invasions, submarines and other anachronistic sci-fi conventions.

Besides, the 'genetic enhancement' in my setting is more along the lines of Frankenstein rather than Captain America.

 

[AtomicPope]

Your big problem is your giving a big power boost to your defenders, who get tons of surges vs your controllers who get very few.

I think the idea can still work, just make the bonuses very small, like a +1 to attack roll for a healing surge or +1 to a skill check. Remember in 4e bonuses are rare, so even a +1 is actually pretty useful. But I think actually recharging powers is too strong.

Agree. They have fewer surges and less hitpoints. When they spend a surge they gain less HP. If a controller gets hit for 12pts and a defender gets hit for 12pts, the defender will recover more easily. Leaving the defender with more healing surges before spending, and spending less when they do suffer the same injuries.

A +1 bonus will even out with controllers because they use AOE attacks. Essentially it means they'll be +1 three times (or so) for a single healing surge. Controllers will have less to use but they'll be more meaningful, in terms of reward and lack of availability.

 

[wagenejm]

Something my friends and I have discussed for our campaign is trading action points to recharge spent encounter and daily powers. A single action point can be traded to recharge an encounter power, rather than an extra action. Or two action points can be traded in to recharge a daily power, but only during a short rest.

Since action points are in a limited supply, based on encounters, it naturally balances itself out as you progress and do things, and is enticing for characters that may not otherwise feel the need to spend action points simply for the sake of doing it.

 

[erik_the_guy]

My mistake about the steampunk thing. I was thinking of a setting more like FFVI, but I guess even that story had some genetic engineering type stuff going on.

You seem to want to give players the abilities to recharge powers with healing surges. Some people have suggested adding a bonus to certain rolls by spending healing surges is more balanced. Although adding a small bonus can be very beneficial, I don't think it is cinematic enough to make the players feel very powerful. I don't think that recharging used abilities (as you suggested) is too imbalanced, but I have an idea that could work.

Write up a list of powers that the players can take which are very strong but require healing surges, action points or hit points to use. This is a bit more fun than just recharging the powers they already have (using the same power a dozen times can get boring).
As a starting point, one of these powers can be an at-will minor action that recharges an encounter power at the cost of a healing surge, and another is an at-will minor action that recharges a daily power at the cost of two healing surges. The latter can only be used if you took a short rest since you last used a daily.
Most of these powers will be at will or encounter powers since they are limited by healing surges rather than rests. Also, make some powers work best with wizards and other classes that get low HP and healing surges to help balance the powers for these classes.
I suggest granting the powers to the characters at first level, and every 2 levels afterward (3,5,7...). You can limit some of them to paragon and epic tier, and you might allow them to purchase extra such powers as feats.

I don't think you need to worry about balance issues too much. Your campaign is going to be a little extreme if everyone is steam punk, so just use stronger monsters to compensate. Just make sure the steam punk abilities are balanced compared to each other, and that they don't completely overshadow the class features.

Here are a couple of sample powers.

Flames of wrath
At-Will, No action
Cost: 1 healing surge
Effect: Use this power when you hit with an ability that has the fire keyword. All enemies hit by the effect gain ongoing fire damage 5 (save ends). If the spell already causes ongoing fire damage, instead add 5 to the ongoing damage to targets that were hit.

Inhuman strength
At-Will, No action
Cost: Action point, 1 Healing surge
Effect: Use this power when you hit an enemy with a melee attack that has the weapon keyword. Add 4[W] to the attack damage.