Training horse to warhorse

[mafisto]

I usually research this stuff myself, but I've been strapped for time so I'm going to rely on this fine community for an answer.

I have a player that believes that training his light horse the attack 'trick' using Handle Animal bestows upon the horse all abilities and skills of a warhorse (bonuses to STR, CON, hoove attacks, etc.)

This sounds counterintuitive to me, as it seems a warhorse is bred and trained for years for the rigor of combat, but I simply don't have the time to pore through the handbooks for a rules-based justification.

So, what's the consensus out there?

 

[Treebore]

It takes years. Look up drusage (sp?) on the internet. a fully trained warhorse is a truly scary thing on the battlefield. In fact I think they are horribly understated in the MM.

 

[mikebr99]

Training the lt. horse for 6 weeks gives you exactly what is says under the handle animal skill, nothing else.

Combat Riding (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes six weeks. You may also "upgrade" an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat riding by spending three weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Warhorses and riding dogs are already trained to bear riders into combat, and they don’t require any additional training for this purpose.

Mike​

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[Plane Sailing]

IIRC european warhorses were typically particular breeds of horse (e.g. heavy horses: Shires, Clydesdales, Suffolk Punches and British Percherons for instance).

It may be that in D&D they use the distinction between light and heavy horses and then expect war-trained versions of either, but it makes more sense to me that assume that they are talking about different breeds. Less complications for sure!

Cheers

 

[Treebore]

I definitely agree that breed needs to be used in determining HD and such. The problem is that part of HD in D&D is also determined by level of training.

so when I look at light warhorse I look at a quarterhorse or Arabian trained for combat. When I look at Heavy Warhorse I think of Clydesdale and the other large breeds previously mentioned, as war trained.

So I could see a light riding horse being trained to become a light warhorse, but that is it.

Again, if you want to see/learn about the supreme warhorse search drusage (pronounced drewsauge, not sure of the spelling). they are impressive and require 2 to 4 years of training. A very rare horse on the battlefield, but one heck of a war mount to be sure! In a D&D game I would charge at least a thousand gold for such an animal, if you create rules to have such an awesome horse.

I have seen some d20 Mount books that may also cover this kind of training, I believe there are pdf's that may also have such info. I didn't read them, so it is only a guess.

 

[mafisto]

Dressage

My aunt trains horses as an all-encompassing hobby and she, too, is in awe of dressage trained horses. It's really the art of making every movement and thought of your horse yours.

A good link for additional reading: http://www.worlddressage.com/history.htm

I have In The Saddle, which describes mounts in far better detail than the PHB, and I've enjoyed it thus far. Thanks for the quick responses - I was over analyzing the problem. The rules mean what the rules say. Duh.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I have a player that believes that training his light horse the attack 'trick' using Handle Animal bestows upon the horse all abilities and skills of a warhorse (bonuses to STR, CON, hoove attacks, etc.)

Absolutely not, by the rules.

However I would humbly suggest to you the DM that, as mentioned already, allowing a light horse to "become" a light war horse would not be unbalancing and could enhance the roleplaying for this PC if you make an exception to the rules. Once. Wouldn't it be cool for the player to feel a bond with this animal?

The only "problem" arises if the PC starts treating light war horses as cheap fodder. Or tries to turn the Handle Animal skill into a cash cow.

 

[Thanee]

The rules for warbeasts in MM2 might add some insight as well, even though they are not exactly what is used to train a horse for war, but rather other animals.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mafisto]

However I would humbly suggest to you the DM that, as mentioned already, allowing a light horse to "become" a light war horse would not be unbalancing and could enhance the roleplaying for this PC if you make an exception to the rules. Once. Wouldn't it be cool for the player to feel a bond with this animal?

I'm comfortable with bending or breaking the rules to facilitate roleplaying, but several of the posts here have reinforced my belief that this would be rather unbalancing of me to allow.

The main problem isn't just the fact that the PC could buy cheap horses and train them into warhorses in a few short weeks. I see the primary issue being the fact that the entire party would be riding warhorses in no time. I cannot bend a rule for one player and exclude all others. Warhorses are very powerful, especially considering I'm running a low-magic Grim-n-Gritty campaign, and it would be a nightmare to have the party's military might triple in a single session.

'Upgrading' a horse via a Handle Animal trick is roleplaying enough for me. Anything else would be presenting a door that I don't want my players to open.

 

[Treebore]

Thanks, Thanee, I had forgotten those rules were there. They could apply to horses, at least the basic logic of it. they definitely help with Griffons, hippogriff's, etc...