D&D 5E Translating fencing schools (Destreza, Scrimia, etc) to 5E?

[HighlanderFrodie]

There was an old Dragon mag for 2nd Ed on fencing schools. IDK the number but I'll look and see if I can find the number.

Found it - Dragon Magazine #232 the article is called "En Garde!"

 

[Quickleaf]

Putting together the advice of folks in the thread, in particular [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION], as well as the presentation of fencing schools in Skull & Bones, and my layperson understanding from reading up on them, here's a sample of what I put together for the "English Fence" school of fighting, presumably inspired by DiGrassi, in 5th edition terms.

How does it look to you?

[h3]The Fence[/h3]
The English fencing school is largely based on the teachings of Di Grassi, and compared to Scrimia or Destreza prefers a natural stance and places a greater emphasis on tempo. Followers of this school incorporate unarmed techniques from boxing or wrestling, and favor flashy moves inspired by dueling and prize fights. You learn the following special technique.

Special Technique - Enclosing & Commanding: When you successfuly grapple an opponent you can to choose to either deal unarmed damage each time you win the grapple, or impose disadvantage on the opponent's attacks as long as they are grappled. You only benefit from this tech inquest while wearing light or no armor.

Suggested Feat: Tavern Brawler
Suggested Fighting Style: Two-Weapon Fighting (changed to allow you to perform Two Weapon Fighting with any weapon in your main hand - not just light weapons - and unarmed attacks with the other, and allowing you to apply your ability modifier to damage of your unarmed attack)
Suggested Battlemaster Manuevers: Feinting Attack, Pushing Attack, Tripping Attack

 

[aramis erak]

Putting together the advice of folks in the thread, in particular [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION], as well as the presentation of fencing schools in Skull & Bones, and my layperson understanding from reading up on them, here's a sample of what I put together for the "English Fence" school of fighting, presumably inspired by DiGrassi, in 5th edition terms.

How does it look to you?

[h3]The Fence[/h3]
The English fencing school is largely based on the teachings of Di Grassi, and compared to Scrimia or Destreza prefers a natural stance and places a greater emphasis on tempo. Followers of this school incorporate unarmed techniques from boxing or wrestling, and favor flashy moves inspired by dueling and prize fights. You learn the following special technique.

Special Technique - Enclosing & Commanding: When you successfuly grapple an opponent you can to choose to either deal unarmed damage each time you win the grapple, or impose disadvantage on the opponent's attacks as long as they are grappled. You only benefit from this tech inquest while wearing light or no armor.

Suggested Feat: Tavern Brawler
Suggested Fighting Style: Two-Weapon Fighting (changed to allow you to perform Two Weapon Fighting with any weapon in your main hand - not just light weapons - and unarmed attacks with the other, and allowing you to apply your ability modifier to damage of your unarmed attack)
Suggested Battlemaster Manuevers: Feinting Attack, Pushing Attack, Tripping Attack

There's no need for, and no good reason for, the "any weapon" benefit; rapiers are light weapons. Further, specific handedness isn't part of 5E... and most fencers are almost as proficient in the non-dominant hand.

 

[Quickleaf]

There's no need for, and no good reason for, the "any weapon" benefit; rapiers are light weapons. Further, specific handedness isn't part of 5E... and most fencers are almost as proficient in the non-dominant hand.

You're incorrect. Rapiers are finesse weapons. They are not light weapons. I'm looking at the PHB.

Light weapons are good for small characters and can be used with normal two-weapon fighting.

Finesse weapons let you use Dexterity instead of Strength.

And, yes, I understand there isn't handedness in 5e, it just is natural language to express the idea. I don't see a better way of wording it, do you?

 

[aramis erak]

You're incorrect. Rapiers are finesse weapons. They are not light weapons. I'm looking at the PHB.

Light weapons are good for small characters and can be used with normal two-weapon fighting.

Finesse weapons let you use Dexterity instead of Strength.

And, yes, I understand there isn't handedness in 5e, it just is natural language to express the idea. I don't see a better way of wording it, do you?

Primary weapon hand vs secondary weapon hand.

I'll note that my 41" live steel rapier weighs less than a friend's celtic-style shortsword, or another friend's seax.

 

[Quickleaf]

Ok, running with these ideas, here's my rough interpretation of Destreza and Scrimia. How do they look to you? For example, does using Bonetti's Defense as the special technique of Scrimia make sense or might it be replaced with something that more broadly represents Scrimia?

[h3]La Destreza[/h3]
The Spanish fencing school La Verdadera Destreza is a mathematical approach to fencing based on moving outside the enemy's arc of attack and seeking opportunities to deliver en passant attacks. A Diestro(a) trains inside an imaginary circle with in a variety of weapons. Dutch rapier fencing schools in the style of Thibault's Academie de l'Espée follow similar principles as La Destreza.

Special Technique - Circling: When you hit with an opportunity attack or a readied attack, you may move up to your speed to anywhere within reach of the creature you just hit.

Suggested Feat: Mobile
Suggested Fighting Style: Duelist or Two-Weapon Fighting
Suggested Battlemaster Manuevers: Evasive Footwork, Riposte, Sweeping Attack

[h3]Scrimia[/h3]
"Scrimia" includes the Italian school of Scrimia, the French school of Escrime, and the German school of Schermize which bear great resemblance to one another, all focusing on linear economy of motion, timing, and tempo. Additionally, the followers of Scrimia make great defensive use of their off hand in which they might hold a buckler shield, another blade, gauntlet, cloak, or scabbard.

Special Technique - Bonetti's Defense: Whenever you take the Dodge action or successfully use a reaction to turn an attack against you into a miss, as a bonus action you may Disengage.

Suggested Feat: Defensive Duelist
Suggested Fighting Style: Defense (re-skinned so the +1 AC bonus applies when wielding anything in the off-hand)
Suggested Battlemaster Manuevers: Feinting Attack, Lunging Attack, Parry

 

[MoutonRustique]

A minor note : not sure one can use a [bonus action] when it isn't one's turn. That would make using Bonetti's Defense... difficult.

 

[aramis erak]

A minor note : not sure one can use a [bonus action] when it isn't one's turn. That would make using Bonetti's Defense... difficult.

Make it a bonus reaction.

 

[Quickleaf]

A minor note : not sure one can use a [bonus action] when it isn't one's turn. That would make using Bonetti's Defense... difficult.

Make it a bonus reaction.

Ack, that's what I get for trying to follow the existing rules examples! Since its meant to be used both either on your turn or off your turn, I will just nix that "bonus ____" rules language altogether.

Minor details aside, does anyone have thoughts as to how well suited my example 5e fencing schools are to the real world schools I'm trying to model?

 

[aramis erak]

Spanish circle you've missed the mark widely. The circling is always just a step or two, never a large move, let alone a bonus full move.