Traps in 13th Age

[deadeye2891]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of designing an adventure for the 13th Age system and wanted some input from the community on the role of traps. The core rules seem to ward GMs away from using traps because of their traditional role as insta-death devices in old school games, and state that traps in 13th Age are mostly sources of minor resource attrition for PCs.

That said, I've come up with (I think) some pretty ingenious traps to add into this adventure, and I'm looking at following the level-appropriate guidelines as stated on page 186 of the core rules to implement them. For the most part, these traps are going to deal incidental damage but throw the PCs who fall for them into jeopardy of being attacked by a pretty nasty monster.

I guess my question is, what's your experience with using traps in your games? Do players still enjoy them when used as suggested in the core rules? Do you ever make them more severe for extremely lethal trap designs? Have your players given any feedback suggesting that they do or don't like having traps included in the game?


Thanks for your advice,
Richard E. Moore
Writer/Co-Editor, Jon Brazer Enterprises

 

[DMZ2112]

I guess my question is, what's your experience with using traps in your games? Do players still enjoy them when used as suggested in the core rules? Do you ever make them more severe for extremely lethal trap designs? Have your players given any feedback suggesting that they do or don't like having traps included in the game?

My experience with 13th Age specifically is unfortunately limited, but I have some experience with players in D&D4, which had a similar "traps designed for inconvenience" vibe. What I found was that, in general, non-lethal traps were tough on immersion in a system with no injury rules. They worked well in combat encounters as a sort of "difficult terrain plus" -- designing truly awful "mind of its own"-style battlefields was one of my favorite parts of D&D4 -- but out of combat they were pretty irrelevant and left players wondering why the trapsmith would have bothered.

What I finally settled on was making out-of-combat traps lethal -- or at least possessed of far-reaching consequences -- but easy to spot. Sometimes I wouldn't even require a roll. Because the real value of a trap is not in it going off and removing someone's kidneys, but in the dread that it will, and in the effort the party must take to circumvent or disarm it.

If the party fails, they are generally forced to go around. If they do something stupid, then maybe the trap squishes somebody. I've had good luck with this approach.

 

[biotech66]

Traps are a great way to whittle down your PCs resources. Make them quick, make them hurt, and make them hit the whole group. There a standard part of a dungeon crawl, but if you don't include the whole group then its just one guy playing DnD with the GM.

 

[alien270]

What I finally settled on was making out-of-combat traps lethal -- or at least possessed of far-reaching consequences -- but easy to spot. Sometimes I wouldn't even require a roll. Because the real value of a trap is not in it going off and removing someone's kidneys, but in the dread that it will, and in the effort the party must take to circumvent or disarm it.

If the party fails, they are generally forced to go around. If they do something stupid, then maybe the trap squishes somebody. I've had good luck with this approach.

While I wouldn't go quite as far as making traps lethal (though they might be if the PC is like my players and doesn't spend as many recoveries as they should after a battle), I'm inclined to make them pretty rare, but much nastier than the suggestions in the core book. I like the philosophy of making them pretty obvious, or at least making it obvious that something is off in this area. For best effect, I'd do enough damage to eat up at least a couple of recoveries, or depending on the nature of the trap maybe hit the PC with a temporary negative background, or something similar to the disease tracks in the Midgard bestiary.

EDIT: The potentially nastiest "trap" I implemented in-game was a pair of animated statues that I allowed the Dwarf Paladin to immediately recognize as cursed (thanks to his Icon roll with the Dwarf King). Specifically, he knew that the curse would be triggered if either statue was "killed." This was the main security measure in the vault of a Dwarven noble, so it was a neat way for the players to have to break open this vault under pressure, without defaulting to "reduce those guardians to 0 HP!" strategy.

The players ended up being too terrified of this curse to risk killing the things. And for good reason; I never told them, but the curse I had in mind would have turned their limbs into goblin-limbs, making most tasks extremely difficult!

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

IMO the deadliness isn't all that relevant. I don't like the idea of a "zap trap" that does a little attritional damage any more than I like a save-or-die trap.

I'm a much bigger fan of traps that can be used as part of an encounter. I'll use the pit trap as an example. A pit trap in a hallway is kind of boring. You either notice it, and avoid it, or fail to notice it, and fall and take damage.

A pit trap in a kobold's lair works better. The kobolds know where the trap is, and are probably behind it. Perhaps they're behind crates and firing crossbows at the PCs. In order to get to the kobolds, the PCs are likely to charge and try to get past the crates... but as they do so they might fall into the pit. (Sometimes it's harder to search for traps in combat.) Now that a PC is in the pit, PC strength has been reduced. Does someone pull them up, cutting down on their own healing or damage potential? Or does the victim have to pull themselves out? Do the kobolds start tossing scorpions into the pit? Either way, the pit trap has become an important part of the battle. Even better, depending on what kind of opponents you're facing, the pit trap is dangerous even after it's been revealed. And PCs might start tossing kobolds into said pit!

 

[mkill]

I second the "traps as part of the encounter".

it makes sense. If the Dungeon Overlord instructs his goblins to create a pit trap,
he would have that place guarded by some orcs to make sure those pesky intruders
don't just disarm the trap. It also helps to stack the power balance in his favor.

in the end, it's a question of suspension of disbelief. Put the traps where a there is a
good reason for whoever built or inhabits the place to put one. Main entrance,
secret passage, treasury, throne room... You don't want a trap in your sleeping quarters or
the lavatory.

As for "would DMs want traps"... Everyone has different preferences.
You won't please everyone. If you bill your adventure as " hommage to old school" or
similar, knock yourself out

 

[DMZ2112]

I second the "traps as part of the encounter".
it makes sense. If the Dungeon Overlord instructs his goblins to create a pit trap,
he would have that place guarded by some orcs to make sure those pesky intruders
don't just disarm the trap. It also helps to stack the power balance in his favor.

I have to be honest: despite the enjoyment I derived from creating killing floors in D&D4, I don't actually agree with this viewpoint. Traps + minions = OSHA nightmare. I'm being a little flip, but I have run Keep on the Shadowfell a few times and I have never ended that first encounter in the Keep without multiple goblins and no PCs at the bottom of that pit trap.

You station minions within earshot, sure, but the purpose of a recent trap (ancient traps are a different animal) is to impede access and inflict intruder attrition /without/ the application of humanoid resources.

I didn't address the specific flavor of 13th Age in my previous post, but I am honestly surprised that the authors advise dungeon masters to avoid traps when their own concept of living dungeons seems to lend itself so perfectly to the presence of complex and dangerous devices. The first thing that crossed my mind upon reading about living dungeons was that it was a perfect excuse for ornate and even illogical trap design that would never work in an environment that was purpose-built for anything but killing adventurers.

Having to have traps make logical sense is one of the biggest hurdles to design, I find. No matter how you slice it (har har), concealing spring-loaded blades inside your walls is a recipe for eventual disaster.

 

[GMMichael]

The core rules seem to ward GMs away from using traps because of their traditional role as insta-death devices in old school games, and state that traps in 13th Age are mostly sources of minor resource attrition for PCs.

Insta-death = not fun.
Resource attrition = slightly less not fun.

Let's look at the bigger picture. Why does a character use a trap? To kill a pest. That's the simplest, most universal answer I can come up with. Whether the pest is eating the food in your cupboards, or trying to steal your treasure, the use is the same. A trap that just -weakens- the rat doesn't stop it from cleaning out your cupboards. Just slowing down the thief doesn't protect your diamond necklace.

Why does a GM use a trap? To scare the PCs. Without worrying about traps, PCs can storm their way through any environment, stopping only when they find someone wielding an ugly weapon. Knowing there are traps around can reduce storming.

But as 13th Age says - don't kill your PCs. They don't like it. But they won't be scared if traps just weaken them a bit. And NPCs wouldn't bother to place traps that don't protect (or kill) anything.

So what's the solution? How do you make traps lethal and scary, without killing your PCs?

Because the real value of a trap is not in it going off and removing someone's kidneys, but in the dread that it will, and in the effort the party must take to circumvent or disarm it.

+1. Traps cause fear. And as long as your PCs know, generally, where a trap is, they won't need to slow the rest of their dungeon-crawling down to account for dozens of unseen, impractical traps as well. Give your PCs some advance knowledge of a trap (even the previous victim lying around), and you can still make the trap lethal as well. It only takes one smart PC or NPC to prepare an antidote or a resurrection scroll for when the party fails to avoid the known trap.

 

[deadeye2891]

Just checking back in to let everyone know that I've been following this thread but haven't wanted to chime in and influence the discussion. Thanks to everyone who offered their insight--it sounds like traps that are more than just attrition-level damage, but also offer real consequences within the context of a given encounter, are the preferred usage. I also agree with the comment that the terrain descriptions of the 13th Age core rules suggest the use of lethal obstacles by implication.

This discussion has made me improve some existing ideas, discard some others, and come up with one or two all-new ones as a result of your input. I greatly appreciate the advice!

 

[GrahamWills]

Some of my Traps

I have used traps quite a bit in my 13th Age sessions. Here are some examples:

During Encounters

A pool of acid with some invisible "monkey bars" over the top of them was one trap/hazard that worked well, as they needed negotiating during a combat where monsters turned up on both sides of the pool. This simple trap/hazard did damage and made the combat nastier if the players ended on the wrong side ...

I just ran a combat yesterday on the back of a Koru Behomoth named "Snorter". If you fumbled an attack, it irritated the creature, and the player had to balance a small wooden figure (meeple) on the back of a D&D turtle-like figure I had lying around. If you knocked any meeples off, you took that many d6 damage as the behemoth snorted in annoyance and rippled the ground under you.

Straight Nastiness

My group enjoys a long, drag down, Fort-Apache-The-Bronx style session where you gets lot of damage and the goal is to not run out of recoveries. I adapted a module for a slog through a winter climate -- some battles, some skills, but also some falling off rotten logs or into hunter's traps.

I also impose long-running conditions on players. For example, a fire trap made people's faces look awful, giving a -2 on any social interactions until the next full heal-up. Traps that cause disease are also fun.

Add Complications

Rather than damaging players, consider traps that damage the plot! Part of my players' goal yesterday was to grab some documents from a group of diabolists riding on the behemoth. The documents were trapped with two effects: First, the thief was subjected to a sleep attack (and went down). That required his accomplice to carry him away to safety quickly while the diabolists remained distracted. Worse though was that the writings faded -- they can now only be restored by a very clever master thief; the party will now have to both find one and pay for him to restore the scrolls.

Icon Related

If someone gets a 5 result, and I have something good I want to give for a 6, I occasionally throw in a penalty as a balance (for the 5) and traps can be good for that. The druid shows you a short-cut to your goal, but it's used by trappers and has some ranges on it. The emperor's seneschal lets you choose any item from the armory, but warns that some of them haven't been de-trapped since the castle was liberated from the enemy.